Ok I was following you fine up till this point, but I don’t really understand what you’re saying with this statement. Why is Champion inefficient? And were your friends still bored by Champion level? Why not just ignore optimal grinding and aggressively push up difficulty to keep things challenging for you and your friends? Do they even need to be max level to start playing Legend?
They need hero power 300(legend). Again, using the 3x XP gives you lots of xp and chests so you can easily farm items.
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I think generally speaking the grind is fine if you like to play solo or with randoms, because you can always change up/down the difficulty to accommodate for your skill/gear level. The progress feels pretty good even.
The problem comes when you want to play a decent difficulty with friends, but the friends don’t have the levels so are needlessly nerfed and sometimes cannot even access the higher difficulty challenges.
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It is not at all a case of nostalgia. I just recently introduced some friends of mine to both vermintide games, and while we could start with nightmare in the first game, they had to play for a long time the sequel before we could enjoy some matches together.
I also have friends with whom I played VT1 which couldn’t be bother to bear the grind of leveling up each character - so they barely touch it.
VT1 might have been wonky when it was released, as you rightly say, but now it’s in pretty good shape (and it’d be in a better one if the promised mod support happened). I think there’s no excuse to make the sequel worse.
As a last example, after 800 hours I got every hat, trinket and red weapon in the first game (thanks to the board system and no duplicate reds) while after almost 2000 hours I’m still missing a lot of stuff, and thanks to its system (red drops specifically) I’m not guaranteed to get them in the same amount of time.
I can live without them, but there’s no doubt in my eye which system works best.
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It was alredy suggested in another thread but the contract system needs to come back.
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I agree. I play cata and legend in VT2. If I have to go back to the equivalent of recruit in Darktide or VT3 and invest 40+ hours of playing difficulties that are well below my skill level then I’ll be really pissed. I’m already on the fence about Darktide as I’m not really a sci-fi fan. If it has the same grindy loot system (RNG + duplicates), crappy RNG crafting mechanics and needlessly long character progression as VT2 then I’ll be way less likely to purchase. The core mechanics of VT2 are great but all of the peripheral systems for leveling your character and gear and getting skins have been cynically designed to inflate grind. It took me 2.3K hours to get all red skins and commendation hats, which is ridiculous! I enjoy the game much more now that I don’t care about loot. Fatshark need to respect their player’s time and dispense with all this bullshxxt!
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Couldn’t have put it better myself.
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Yeah, it takes more time to level than to play the game, but thats wasn’t the point of the comment.
The point was you are complaining that this game is grindy because of X reason, and then went on to suggest another grinding mechanic. Could the leveling system use some work? Yeah, make it too slow and players lose interest, make it too fast and people hop in champion and wonder why an overhead from a SV does damage.
If your friends need convincing killing rats - they are not your friends.
You have us - I can trashtalk you on your choice of class/skill/trait/ability as well as performance any day of the week!
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Leveling COULD be forgiven as necessary evil and even MORE exp could be a easy fix
Itemisation however is atrociously horrendously bad
HOW can say to my friend that yes THAT cool looking elven 1 handed sword skin he CANT get because its red weapon and I got that weapon after 500 hours
There is NO WAY to target loot - so the MANDATORY 33% curse resistance, how many rolls you need on that orange trinket to get that 
?
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Heh
You basically summed up what FS wasn’t able to learn from their previous Vermintide game.
And this was obvious to everybody with a life from day one. Yes as a kid I had more than enough time to grind trough such systems there is a reason why free MMO’s work :P.
This hit me and my friends especially hard since were a bit obsessed with maximizing and so the game really started for us at max level. We all left back when they raised the lvl cap by 5, that was the last straw for us.
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Your friend just needs to get 1 character to level 25-30 to have jewelry pieces that will increase his other hero’s power enough to start on Champion difficulty. It would be rough for your friend but won’t be so boring for you as you’ll get the new V2 difficulty of carrying new players. Which I always find to be quite fun to see how long I can keep them alive. Sometimes I make ridiculous challenges for myself on lower difficulties such as not using melee or ranged weapon for the whole run or go to modded realm to remove my talents then re-enter official with no talents selected.
I don’t understand this logic. Most online/co-op games have a leveling system. People who buy borderlands today still have to level up their character just like players did on launch. The leveling system in borderlands is far more grindy as you have to go through 3 different playthroughs to reach max level and even more grindy to farm for gear.
This wouldn’t help at all but instead run players off because now they are forced to play a difficulty that might be too easy for them. Recruit now is waaaay easier than it was on launch. I do miss the infinite hordes during CBT though.
We gained over 1,000 new active players since the triple XP event went live. Even if they aren’t new players, it doesn’t mean we’re bleeding players. Just think, V1 suffered huge loss of players after just a few months of release but gained after each DLC launch and it’s been 2 years since V2 came out (March will mark 3rd year) and is doing quite well. It may not have 10,000 players like borderlands or L4D but those games were made by large companies with even larger publishing companies to help promote the game.
For an indie game, I think it’s doing quite well.
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Christ Almighty this is not an indy game. They’re a big outfit now. The goodwill earned by being an indy company is long gone since they got Tencent investment and took on huge amounts of people.
I do agree the triple XP + halloween and so on tempted lots back. I’ve played QP games with LOADS of level 30 players who simply CBA to get to 35 after WoM and left. The obscene power boost with the last patch has also meant lapsed players rejoining are enjoying the power as well.
There will always be a disconnect as FS seem to be wading through treacle when it comes to getting QoL and player requested changes into the game. You could list years-old problems here; Deeds, Crafting,no new skins, WoM sucks, beastmen roster… and so on Ad Nauseum.
IF Chaos Wastes launches in a better state than WoM, and Kruber gets a ranged weapon as part of the DLC, and Bardin gets a runesmith class, All before spring It’ll be a marked improvement and change of direction for FS.
Still doesn’t help the new player grind though…
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They are not a huge outfit. Yes, Tencent did invest in Fatshark but it’s only a 36% stake of the company. Fatshark is still considered an independent company that can still make their own independent decisions.
Besides, no one here knows how much time and resources Tencent utilizes towards Fatshark’s projects. It could have just been a one time investment so they could continue to grow solely based on their V2 success. The size of the company itself and the number of employees is still relatively low comparing to other large gaming companies.
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The problem is still that it just plain isn’t fun to have to level up again, even if you can cut some corners by having higher level gear. (I assume you agree since you said so yourself in the last sentence).
Making amusing challenges for yourself to be able to stand playing lower difficulties isn’t a bad idea, but it is basically admitting that there is a problem, and it has no bearing on the question whether levelling in itself as-is is a good mechanic or not.
This is a very important thing, in my opinion: Just because some things work well in other games, THAT DOESN’T MEAN IT WORKS WELL IN VERMINTIDE. I must admit I don’t really know Borderlands, but from what I know of it, I am under the impression that the unending hunt for better items is a core component of that game’s gameplay loop (much like it is in games such as Diablo). (But correct me if I’m wrong, please!) That works well in such games, because the thrill of finding that rare powerful upgrade after grinding is something we humans are programmed to enjoy. But that thrill isn’t a core component of Vermintide. The thrill of Vermintide comes from improved player skill and beating a certain challenge (whether that is finally finishing a Champion run or beating DWONS is irrelevant). So in some games, like Borderlands, a levelling system and RNG loot can work really well, while still being a bad fit for other games, like Vermintide.
I find it hard to believe most totally new players will get bored after not even having finished all (boss) maps on Veteran. However, I find it very easy to believe that having to level up all over again after already playing in, say, Champion, is off-putting. A situation in which levels / hero power don’t exist, but where you have to complete a trial of competence (that can be knocked out in a single evening) would probably be infinitely better for most folks.
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Won’t lie, back in the day I was very put off by the leveling progression
XP rates were far worse back then though so take it with a pinch of salt
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Since borderlands is talked a lot, I just got to say its almost 10 times easier in that game to just have a buddy to power farm you to max level in a few hours. In case of bl3 the drops are also individual so capped characters are really not getting gimped by helping low lv players.(You could get random legendary drops while doing story again)
Also trading saves where you already have capped chars is pretty common in Bl3 pc so V2 is not really even a comparison.
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You took everything I said out of context…
I meant it would rough for his friend to start a new character on Champion difficulty as opposed of playing it on his higher level character.
I make amusing challenges for myself because I like to make amusing challenges for myself. I have no issues whatsoever helping people level in lower difficulties. It was merely a suggestion for OP since he claims to be bored playing in the lower difficulties to help his friend level.
Again, out of context. Borderlands 1, 2, and pre-sequel are WAY more grindy than Vermintide. It does not work for Borderlands.
This was a reply to the OP who said Fatshark should lock Recruit and Veteran to low level players with no access to Champion until they have completed all maps on each of the lower levels.
I, personally, do not or have not had an issue to level up each hero. I did play the first Vermintide and that leveling system was different but so was the game. The reason behind having to level up each hero is because of the passive/active abilities and talents. It promotes being able to learn each career instead of blinding joining the hardest difficulty with no experience or knowledge to how their kits work.
For me, the game is fun no matter what difficulty I play on. I’ve played so many different games in my life and even have 10+ years in MMO gaming and after 2015, I left all of them behind for Vermintide.
I can’t say what it is about this game that I enjoy so much but dropping down to recruit to help new players complete their weekly event is quite fun for me. I stay behind them the whole way and let them tackle the enemies and only step in when they need help.
I hate to say this but this game isn’t for everyone. Just like how I tried to get my brother to play ESO so many years ago. He’s not into MMO games. He enjoys single player games.
Fun is subjective. What’s fun for some people might not be fun for other people. No one should force themselves to play something that isn’t fun for them.
So, whatever the OP decides is what’s best for them.
Well, there was a power glitch that was fixed 3 months after launch. Crafting weapons/gear had no power cap and I was able to get 1 hero, accidentally, to 300 gear score. I was level 7…
I chose to temporarily quit the game until it was fixed as to not get max power weapons/jewelry on my other heroes. I am not a fan of game exploits.
New players are locked by item level requirements. 115 for Veteran, 215 for Champion and 415 for Legend. You dont need to complete all maps on recruit to unlock Veteran in my suggestion. IMO its better to clear all maps on veteran as a tutorial and remove the whole leveling grins. Much faster progression to enjoy the endgame.
You are saying that you have fun challenging yourself by handicaping yourself and keep dismissing our points since you have fun anyway. The problem is that other player that are not like you are NOT having fun by running lower difficulties handicapped. If fatshark changes leveling system you will still be able to handicap yourself however you want .
You think if fatshark makes this changes the game wont be fun for you anymore? I dont understand why are u going against changes that would make the game fun for MORE people if doenst ruin your experience?
And Im into MMO games but Vermintide is more like a L4D and far from any mmos.
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I never said that.
Please go reread what I wrote. You took everything completely out of context.
Obviously. My comment about MMO games was just a point I was making how some people will prefer certain type of games over other types. Again, you completely blew what I said out of proportion.
I do not handicap myself for fun. It’s an alternative way of playing just like the “white runs” in V1 Cataclysm.
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