I wonder any patch will be up before weekend? I don’t want to miss playing weave… Sat and Sun are days i can play weave. My groups don’t play weave on weekday. If these issues still going through weekend, i need to wait next weekend…
Elgi Umgak!
Thanks for the explanation, was wondering what that meant as well.
Here’s an example:
Developers effective at community management (which does translate into sales) have been using development diaries with a lot of success. These weekly or bi-weekly reports are huge for generating a pipeline for communication. Even more importantly, they keep people interested in your game and looking forward to the updates. People share links to the diaries on social media, talk about it on forums, generate positive speculation and buzz. It’s huge for marketing and keeping your base engaged.
Ultimately, transparency is the name of the game here. If you preface development diaries with “This is the direction we are currently working towards, but of course is all subject to change” then the people calling you out being a liar for “claiming X and delivering Y” can easily be disregarded and have no basis for their outbursts.
Most of a game’s community will understand that things change during development - and again transparency is your friend. Explaining in a subsequent diary why system X had to change into Y for technical/balance/etc. reasons does wonders for building trust and faith in you as a developer.
Such diaries are also a way to gauge community response to an idea or future change/feature before getting so far down the pathway that it can’t be changed if it’s apparent the community doesn’t like the sound of it. If the community knew 8-9 months ago that static maps and “seasons” with 120 separate queues were an idea being tossed around for the weaves, you might have been able to steer their development in a direction more in line with what the community wanted from such a system. That’s just one example.
There are always going to be screaming idiots on the internet. Don’t manage your PR and communication strategy to appease (or avoid) them. Manage your strategy to appease your core base of players. If your core players are happy, it is them who will spread news and excitement about the game by word of mouth, positive recommendations, and so on. And that’s how you work to build up the total size of players playing your game and buying future content to keep you all in business.
12 Likes
Okay, I can understand that if people have a structure in mind and it gets changed, that it creates a bit of separation between dev and community. I would just like the bare minimum of information, even if it was just a brainstorm. Say if you told us you were looking into keeping deeds somewhat the same but giving unique rewards limited to deeds vs single use mutators that could be applied to a mission vs merging them with weaves or whatever. I’m honestly not very interested in deeds, it’s just if you’re whipping something up with your back turned to me and say I’m really gonna like it, that makes me nervous and I have less faith in what you’re doing.
If you tell me at least, “Hey, we don’t like the way deeds force you to do X map.” or “Hey, we see that deed rewards aren’t very appealing, we’re working on that.” At least that tells me what you’re focusing on and I can at least pipe up and say, “Rewards are nice but I don’t find deeds all that interesting to begin with” and then we can actually have something to discuss.
If you have something come up inbetween then saying you’re putting it on hold to do something a bit more pressing would be totally understandable if it was indeed something that required attention. Not many people are happy with weaves. I’m sure there was appeal for it somewhere but I can’t imagine a lot of people were jumping up in glee if you told them there’d be a totally new progression system that is exactly like the old one but you get to start from the beginning.
I doubt if you told anyone that you’re remixing existing maps to be exclusively played as pre-made challenges that you have no reason to go back to once they’ve been completed, that there would be no reservations about that. You didn’t have to outline every feature of weaves but you couldn’t have been blind to those cons, could you? You could have been vague as hell about the pros and cons of a new mode and I think early on it’d have been evident just by writing the post yourself that it didn’t sound appealing.
It’s not being lazy or greedy, because I’m sure a lot of work was put into weaves and there’s no micro-transactions but it’s puzzling to me why it was done. It’s so separate from the game I thought it was gonna be an experiment on going free to play with micro-transactions included later once dlc money died down (don’t you dare do that now). THAT would make you lazy and greedy. But if it was released as F2P and it allowed you to make money to then make more maps with the quality of Into the Grain or Screaming Bell then I’d be okay with it to be honest. I wouldn’t be ecstatic but I wouldn’t be miserable about it like I am with this dlc. But as it stands, it’s like you took the worst outcomes out of both scenarios, neither wanting the money nor having happy customers. I just don’t get it.
5 Likes
I’m replying to myself as a follow-up.
Here’s the thing to understand: Your core base of engaged players have far more total hours played across more different games than all of FS developers. It’s just sheer numbers (there 100 of you and 1000’s of us).
The point of using dev diaries early on to test an idea when it’s still an early concept is because the community, through their (1) desire to see VT be as successful as it can be and (2) greater experience with what’s worked well or not well in many other games can help provide insight. We are eager to help and provide constructive feedback (These forums are shockingly non-toxic I might point out).
If you share an early concept idea we can help identify how it might work / might not work, or can reference other games where a similar idea worked really well (or not well) as a useful basis for comparison. There is a ton of collective knowledge among your players here. Utilize that for everyone’s benefit.
For specifics, I’m thinking of the following:
- Deed rework - tons of ideas floating around in the community for how to do this right, as part of a bigger QP-based mutator system
- Emporium / Shop - again lots of other games do this well (e.g. Killing Floor 2), but it’s an easy system to screw up in subtle ways
- Loot / cosmetic drop rate adjustments - we all have experience trying to get more casual players on board, and the loot RNG is a major barrier for player retention
- Crafting improvements - again, so many games have good/interesting crafting systems that could be drawn from for inspiration
6 Likes
In other words, you eat what others serve you, not what you want, just on account of chef being famous. I understand, to a point.
But when you really want something, and you get weaves instead, and there are still some core problems, trust and fame are fading slowly but surely. I was a proper Fat Shark fan boy, I bought this game to myself, my gf and two of my friends and made 3 more people to buy the game back in march 2018. I was full of love and support for FS.
But now, now I just feel frustration and anger.
2 Likes
Well at least, you have the appropriate nickname 
4 Likes
Yup, that I do 
2 Likes
Currently, there are few problems on our connection.
I don’t know what causes these problems.
- some players can’t enter the game entirely and they get unlimited loading before keep.
- some players can’t connect other player lobby.
- some players can’t end result screen and stuck there.
From our community, these are symptoms we faced
With that way of think, we have weaves. And still waiting a red helmet (easy overdone example)
1 Like
I suggest making fairly regular blog posts with comments disabled. People will still complain, but at least the complaining will be in a different thread & won’t distract from the actual update itself.
6 Likes
I know that FS dont need me to apologize for them im just saying that ppl that only crying about stuff like this and with a behavior like they can do everything better then the devs are start getting on my nervs… like really hard …whats going on in thier lives that they
have to get so toxic about a game?
Im on this Forum every day and im reading nearly every Post here but at the latest days its not really informative its just ppl bashing the game and the devs .
2 Likes
People get really emotional about things they enjoy and it’s both a good thing and sorta depressing. The worst part is that they just want to talk about it even though it’s not particularly beneficial.
Any feedback on “people failed and they shouldn’t do that” isn’t really helpful. Mistakes can be made, big or small, but it’s doubly important to remember that we’re not the first people to try and chastise them about it.
Chances are this chat all went over internally before we ever heard about it; any additional comments by us is just beating a dead horse (and, more than likely, just putting additional weight on someone who already knows that they messed up bad). The more we do it the more guilty the person will likely feel… and that’s not why we’re here, is it? We’re here to make the game better, not strike out at someone and guilt-trip them.
7 Likes
They were having fun because the game was more fun to play. You’re probably having the time of your life. Some people are not. Less you’re intending to go on a spiel about how only your concept of something as abstract as fun is correct, I’m sure this has cleared up a lot.
So we’re afraid of bad reception and we clam up?
Boy oh boy this is going to be a mouthful
So in FFXIV a job/class was performing lower to snuff. Several of them were but one was struggling in particular. In the very first patch they sneak this in the notes
This game also has a semi regular “letter from the producer” where they outline what their options are, their hopes for the future, the problems they have as well as being transparent on what jobs aren’t feasible based on server load or game coding. And while people may not get the answer they want to hear, they get something tangible to then discuss amongst themselves.
They also go out of their way, though it’s not necessary given the nature of changes when they do happen, to address concerns that they do read feedback for as far and as often as they get it. And get this, this information always ends up posted on their official forums. For those unfamiliar Noclip has released a great documentary on this games rocky history. I recommend any curious check it out.
Both this game and Warframe have had upward growth rates and achieved these growth rates through solid actual reflective adjustment loops, process improvement, great open teams, and great open communication as well as actual acknowledgement of feedback and the actual takeaways from player discussion amongst themselves. And being upfront when ideas change.
Two entirely different types of games of two massively different team sizes have achieved the same desired result by employing the same tools.
It’s night and day hanging on to an mmo, that by all rights should be dead consistently hitting new highs and always striving to reach statisfaction. And coming back to Vermintide
You have problems? Let us know.
You can’t do something? Tell us
Having problems with the schedule? Nobody is going to jump down your throat. In the gaming community as a whole delays are only ever seen as a good thing.
You’ve got countless people in here who will happily explain away misunderstandings.
All you have to do is meet them halfway
Lastly
There’s a mix of both. And while seething angry posters are going to be angry forever, god forbid there is any constructive criticism by posters who wear their emotions on their sleeve.
You think some of the individuals in here like posting scathing seething replies. They frigging love the game. This degradation of our community is nothing but a result of in differences in the gaming experience. They want the game to be something they can enjoy. It can’t be or isn’t, so they’re frustrated.
Honestly.
6 Likes
@Fatshark_Hedge
I’ll take the liberty of asking these questions again, since I see you are still following the thread.
Backstab sounds are better, but some are still missing from all 3 races.
Slayer’s leap indicator appears rarely during Rasknitt’s fight, making the ability almost unusable.
Should I create a topic on bugreport?
1 Like
We know about the leap and firewalk being flakey. If you can show or tell us which backstabs went silently we can check those out.
3 Likes
Is stability, like for frame rate, still being looked at? I know there have been some stability patches, but they seem to mostly be for crashes. I’m still getting a lot of FPS drops into the teens even with no mods, absolutely minimal settings.
1 Like
I experience some fps drops when the director feels particularly sadistic and spawns 6 specials at once but that’s it. The weekly gave my friend mini-freezes with the bomb rats but I had no issue as host. My other friend didn’t comment on it so I think it depends on pc performance.
This is very relevant and is being commented on pretty much every single one of my games by at least one person in the group.
I mostly notice it with certain enemies and props. Banners tend to always be around when I drop down to 15-20.
1 Like