Limb splitter could use a buff but it is at least one of my most used on my krieg loadouts. Fold shovel with skullcrusher + limb splitter = you will ruin the few things Lucius bayonet can’t deal with. Haven’t found another use for it.
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yea lol i still cant beleave it. finnaly a rapier for a vet
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Hi, Pygex here, the maintainer of The Psyker Atheneum. Thank you a lot for the transparency here with the extensive pre-notes! I really appreciate that.
Here is my feedback regarding the changes and some that I would like to see to further increase the build diversity in the game (for Psykers).
Blessings
Run 'n Gun
Why not add Run 'n Gun to the Heavy Laspistol blessing pool? Run 'n Gun is on quite many gun and not really used because it is so underwhelming (topic for another day). However, Heavy Laspistol has perhaps the best hipfire of all the guns in the game while being on the higher spectrum in mobility as well. Even at the current state of the blessing, it could actually see some use on a Heavy Laspistol.
Blazing Spirit
The proc should apply before the damage is applied or a hook should be made to allow Wildfire to proc with initial stacks based on the weapon’s Blazing Spirit tier level on a critical hit kill. We will get soon back into this why it is important with Souldrinker.
New Proposed talents
I like that you are trying to increase build diversity by giving the players more choice in their talents while keeping things mostly in their places. Psykers are currently lacking proper melee talents and it’s also refreshing to see some options for those as well. I would like to give my input on this on how to make these proposed changes even better with some justification.
Bandaid talents (Warp Unbound & Crystaline Will)
While Bandaid talents are nice for players that are learning the game, they ultimately eat up an important talent point for a… well… um… there is no other way saying it, for fixing a skill issue.
The new Warp Unbound and Crystaline Will are exactly that. They make not learning the class less punishing, but as the player learns to play the class, these will just be dead slots on the tree instead of meaningful options. We already have wound curios for this.
For Warp Unbound, consider making it such that it applies Soulblaze on non-warp based attacks during the initial active portion of the Scrier’s Gaze and make the stack amount & application chance to be proportional to the inverse of attack speed / fire rate. So faster attacks equal less stacks & less application chance per attack and slower attacks always apply a stack or two.
Scrier’s Gaze
Adding supression immunity as a base line is a good start. However, the major problem with Scrier’s Gaze is that you can resource lock yourself with it. We desperately need to be able to cancel this ability if needed by pressing the ability button again. Nice if we can refund a portion of the cooldown back, but it’s not the end of the world if we get no CD back at all. Scrier’s Gaze needs to be cancellable early without using Force Sword specials or staff charging to do it.
Lightning Speed, Warp Splitting & By Crack of Bone
Psykers finally get some core melee increases, such as the +10% melee weapon speed and increased cleave. This is very nice. However, without additional toughness generation nodes that are powerful and specific to melee, going full in on melee Psyker build is going to be extremely risky. By Crack of Bone is an interesting one for Illisi Special spammers for sure.
The class is already the squishiest so getting chipped is a big concern in general. When you go in melee, you do often get chipped. The only way to prevent that is to have a reliable way of regaining your toughness and avoiding the ranged fire while engaging in a melee fight. We already have tools for avoiding the ranged fire (dodges & Empathic Evasion) with even more to come (Agile blessing) but we still are lacking for strong melee related tools for regaining the toughness back.
Assuming Souldrinker works on killing an enemy that has the debuff on, Souldrinker could work with a Blazing Spirit weapon. However, because the Blazing Spirit proc is applied after the damage it often happens (with Force Swords & Void) that the target is dead and you get no fire, so you get no Souldrinker proc and you can’t spread it with wildfire either. As such, Souldrinker will only really be an option for Fire Trauma & Purgatus staves while it remains in the melee talent cluster…
If you have a Trauma or Purgatus staff, you often use those over your melee weapon unless you need to block or kill a couple funny groaners. If Souldrinker only works on kills that are made by the actual DOT effect… it’s a Purgatus only talent… on the wrong side of the tree.
Penetration of the Soul & Empyric Resolve
Some Gun Psyker builds (Bolt pistol!) rely on the Warp Siphon keystone for good and reliable break points, as the Empyrean Empowerment allows it to meet good head shot and body shot hit to kill values at Damnation. At the current tree proposition, there is nothing at the tier before the Warp Siphon keystone that would benefit Gun Psyker builds. Gun Psyker builds already have it a bit challenging to build up peril and re-gain toughness, therefore Empyric Resolve will only hurt Gun Psykers as having no benefit (Penetration of the Soul) is better than hurting yourself.
Please, consider adding +10% rending when above 50% peril for non-warp attacks as well to this talent. Alternatively, you could add a third option to this tier which would give +40% peril generation with +30% toughness generation so kind of the opposite of Empyric Resolve effect.
Old Talents in a desperate need of love
As a reminder, there are a lot of old talents that are desperately in need of some love. It’s very nice to get some new toys to play with, but it would be equally nice if some of the old toys that are in an almost unusable state could be brought to life as well.
Mind In Motion
Very little benefit outside of Scrier’s Gaze as you can movement tech your way instead, even more useless for a gun oriented Psyker. Consider adding a little more oomf to it, i.e. “in addition, allow sprinting while reloading and quelling”.
Warp Rupture
Either dramatically increase the damage and dramatically reduce the damage fall-off or rework completely. Currently this is just a weaker version of the Creeping Flames.
Anticipation
Either buff dramatically (and make it also work on ranged attacks…) or re-work completely.
Unlucky for Some
Rework, I.e. interact with an ally to instantly raise them up and enter perils of the warp yourself or at the cost of peril with some internal CD.
Bio-Lodestone
Keep the on kill proc rate base line but add an additional roll (i.e. 15% chance) on gaining a charge on any weak spot kill. Currently this is inferior to Overpowering Souls especially on higher difficulties where elites are almost always present. Bio-Lodestone should be the ‘horde farm’ tool counter part but it is failing at it.
Purloin Providence
20% chance to quell 15% on kill of a marked target gives us a 0.2 * 0.15 = 0.03, so we have an expected value of 3% quelling for each marked target killed… In case I am not clear, it’s not good, not good at all.
This needs to be a 100% chance to quell X% on a marked target kill, and the value for that X% needs to be AB-tested in play tests. If you want help to get started, start with a 10% and tune it up or down as needed.
Perfectionism
This could add a stack or two more to make it easier to ramp up stacks as a band aid for now. It’s hard to keep them at high levels even during hordes but this is more due to how the marking works, making Lingering Influence simply the better option at the moment.
If you made it this far
Once again, thank you truly for these notes.
10 Likes
I used it for a while for a funny zealot build which allowed me to one shot Crusher from stealth, but I barely touched it since.
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We don’t know how Crystaline Will will function exactly yet (will your peril reset to 0?), so I can’t be sure, but it seems to me that both of these talents, but at least Warp Unbound, are for pushing out more damage, not just making things more forgiving.
Empyric Resolve looks like a must-pick for Scrier’s to me!
5 Likes
I have been playing melee style psyker with force swords (not Illisi) , and duellist sword Mk V (hardly optimal choices) since Patch 13. It is risky, far from optimal, but really fun and rewarding playstyle. Mettle, assail, peril based toughness regen talents, toughness DR on high peril, Scrier’s tend to be enough for regen. I tend to combine this with a crit based blessing such as Riposte/Shred. Riposte seems to have a better crit uptime in my experience.
I’m probably average+ “experienced” player and I tend to see on average 600-750k total damage in a 25-30 min damnation+ games as a “melee” psyker. Damage split fairly evenly between melee and ranged. I tend to just run Agri revolver for some quick crit damage bursts, and avoid the more obvious “meta” picks for gun psykers. Those numbers can probably go a bit higher with better players, more optimal weapon choices, especially if you use SG more aggressively, I often don’t activate it unless we hit a proper wave / elite pack etc.
This proposed change to Mettle might complicate things, but I never fully tested how much I depend on the crit based toughness regen. Hardly a necessary nerf from the perspective of “melee” psyker builds, but then the game is full of ranged weapons with silly pseudo random crit chains so this is probably the reason behind that.
5 Likes
cancellable scrier’s gaze sounds good
also because i run it with the talent where if you block you get higher peril
(i use mainly because i like it just to be able ressing people and tank more attacks if i get swarmed)
and if you use scrier’s gaze and you reach at 100% peril, if you block then it’s kinda risky cause i think it would makes you overcharge
i like also the ult refund if cancellable maybe not at 100% but something like lower maybe? could be interesting using scriers gaze when you actually needed it and if you don’t need you can cancel just to get back a bit your ult.
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Im not too fond of horde clearing with dueling swords so idk how to feel about these weapons on veteran. On my psyker it is almost exclusively a single target weapon but maybe with the power blessing and shred or something it can yield good results. Ive also seen people use rampage for horde clear on gun psyker so idk really we will have to see.
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Arent they giving psyker a new crit toughness talent? Sounded good to me when I read it and if im not mistaken its on the right side of the tree. So even though theyre changing mettle maybe that new talent will shake things up.
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This whole patch seems like they saw the Helldivers 2 situation, and said to themselves, “Ok we can’t nerf anything, let’s just buff all the most popular weapons and don’t touch the under preforming ones in the slightest (besides Thunder Hammer my beloved).”
9 Likes
Idk why people keep talking like the power sword needs nerfed. The power sword is good and all but the mobility is miserable and it has to be powered every 3 swings. Also as much as people complain about the plasma gun i think the braced autogun is absurd but noone ever talks about it. As good as the plasma gun is its a single shot weapon thats good when things are in a straight line but the moment youre in a big room and enemies are spread out you can run into problems. Mind you i have a ton of time with the plasma gun so its not like i dont have experience with the weapon. There are many times using plasma where i wish i had a braced autogun and same goes for the revolver. Revolver is cool until you spend more time reloading than anything else. Revolver only has 5 shots in it at the end of the day.
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You missed the mark on the last change, and I think you missed again.
The original per hit mechanic was working fine. Yes, weapon with high cleave benefit more. That’s where the fun was. I know you think it was too strong, but all you had to do was to reduce the amount of time deducted per hit instead of changing the effect entirely.
According to my calculations, with this latest revision the blessing effectively becomes a flat timer reduction of 13 seconds.
30s / 1.75 = 17s
30s - 17s = 13s
Not even half the time, and it cannot be improved that by combining other effects. That’s lame.
Please revert to the per hit mechanic. And no cooldown period between consecutive hits! All hits must count!
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blocking at max peril uses stamina, so you shouldn’t overcharge with that talent by blocking
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The boltgun changes are INCREDIBLE, I wanted to ask. Is the kickback going to be getting new blessings as well? Will we be getting new weapon marks/new weapons in the update as well?
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Even current Scrier Psyker is already very good in melee and Psyker has some of the best toughness regain talents in the game, so I don’t think we have anything to worry about.
Definitely an unusual decision similar to the damage reduction of thunder hammers and monsters. I think Zealot will definitely suffer the most in this update. “These changes were made because Restoring Faith made taking stray damage a bit too forgiving.” I really don’t understand this, and neither does : Sprint Speed: 10% to 5%.
The Zealot is first in the battle lines. He goes ahead of his team and makes room for his teammates. If the zealot cannot reach the desired target before the others, where is his real value. My suggestion to you is instead of reducing the speed, you should increase it from 10% to 13%. It is a necessity. You have created an attractive and fast class that should withstand the greatest impact of the enemy, why then denying its basic characteristics, which are speed and endurance on the battlefield. I also have a big gripe with Master-Crafted Shroudfield
Duration: 6s to 5s.
I think it should be extended to 8s like the veterans. But at the end of the day it is always the zealot who saves his comrades in the end. You really decided to set back the best class in this game with strange and unacceptable decisions.
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@FatsharkStrawHat I’m fine with the Ogryn changes however I’m curious to know why for a keystone talent solely revolving around pure melee (Heavy Hitter) is having it’s 10% tough reduc changed to 25% suppression? Maybe I misread however it just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me and a little clarification on the swap would be appreciated
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inb4 this is a patch that tests overbuffed stuff before they introduce a higher difficulty level update 2 major updates down the line (and uncap the weapon modifiers from 80% to 100%)…
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Please do not be afraid to buff things and please do not drop a mountain of nerfs.
Please do not balance this game for sweaty difficulty. Auric maelstroms are difficult enough and do not need to be any harder.
All the changes look good, thank you.
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Can we get “Lethal Proximity” (boltpistol blessing) on Spearhead Bolter? IDK if it would be good, but the option would be nice! Was this tested and found too powerful?
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