Thinking of Warp Unbound as a bandaid is a bit narrow I think. A mistake isn’t a mistake if you make it on purpose because you know there won’t be any consequences. I expect to see voidstrike (and maybe surge/trauma) builds that runs this with max CDR to get that 10 sec peril immunity to 100% uptime. With warp charges and good elite/specialist density this should be possible, and will let you just spam attacks at 100 peril forever while having massive bonuses to crit chance and damage. Even if you can’t always keep it up because of lulls, you will be able to whenever the fight is intense enough for it to actually matter.
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ah nice! i was always afraid to test it out 
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But it’s not a public beta which I think should be done, especially considering how op a lot of these changes are
I actually like this, sounds interesting as new blessing
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changes look pretty good, all I would say is it would be cool if the mk2 heavy eviscerator had it’s heavy 2 touched up to match the XV, and if the mk5 and mk2 duelling swords got a little love to bring them up to the same level as the mk4
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Glad to see fatshark have learnt from arrowhead’s failures and aren’t just swinging the nerf bad wildly and are focusing on increasing player options rather than limiting them
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Mk2 has the same heavy attack 1 as duelling sword 4, but with a faster light combo and a cleaving heavy (oh boy will that move slap with +50% power from that new blessing). I’d argue its as good as Mk4.
Mk5 definitely needs something, in Darktides past (pre 13) it had the most single target damage so it having slightly weaker light attacks made some sense. Now it just has weaker attacks on both ends of the spectrum. That strikedown light attack got the smallest of buffs…the regular duelling sword lights are better on Maniacs through crit damage.
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Great news ! This update seems to be huge !
Just hoping it will include some interesting changes to autoguns, especially headhunters which lack of something to perform well (maybe some cleave ?)
However, I have some suggestions for the following change :
It doesn’t fix the main issue : you always have an annoying enemy in your back so… we could convert the problematic 8m radius condition into a cone in the player’s direct field of view instead ?
I stand corrected. Thank you.
Now I just hope the game designers share your interpretation.
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The Vanguard change seems completely against the stated reason. If original Vanguard was a blockade to better options, this new one is even less desirable. I’d rather be able to run and position more effectively, than swap weapons one tenth of a second faster. A +25 toughness node would be more desirable than swap speed.
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Looks good overall. A few bits of feedback:
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Now that plasma guns have additional crit-based blessings you need to go back and figure out a way to have plasma guns work with the deadshot talent, that being sharpshooter veterans primary crit boosting talent.
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The veteran talent tree still has too many passive nodes. It wasn’t veteran’s “turn” to be updated this time but I hope you can do something about this.
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Zealots should be able to use lucius lasguns. Veterans don’t need two different unique ranged weapons and zealots would make good use of the bayonet because of their various melee bonuses. Being able to execute a bayonet charge with chastise the wicked would be very cool.
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Why the heck did you change Vanguard? The original sprint reduction was almost meta for some veteran builds because they already have the worse stamina regen of any class. This should be reverted immediately.
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Glad I’m not the only one who thought this change definitely did not accomplish what the devs intended. Sprint cost reduction is far more valuable and less of a blocker than pathetic swap speed. Can’t think of why I’d want the new talent rather than the old.
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The THammer changes from the other topic sound interesting - looking forward to test them out.
Great! If you‘d now consider to slightly buff mkI anti armor capabilities and replace the weird mkIII slash with the stab of the other two all three variants would be well balanced to each other and as viable picks.
Very cool addition largely - with locks gone I look forward to build crafting!
Most changes here sound interesting and sensible - good work!
Very cool - I‘m very much looking forward to some sabre fencing as vet and zealot!
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Hi @FatsharkStrawHat
These updates are really good and everything, but I feel that there’s been something missing in the Psyker’s kit to help us ‘ride the edge’ and stay at high peril for longer periods of time, without having to furiously switch to the staff or Blitz all the time, or being shoehorned into using Force Swords or Scrier’s Gaze.
Furthermore the Psyker’s 10% chance to quell peril on kill, which is a really central node, has quite the ‘anti synergy’ phenomenon when you’re trying to take advantage of all the high-peril bonuses talents. It encourages staff and blitz spam, and it punishes you for wanting to melee while at high-peril. The randomness also makes it unpredictable which is not always appreciated.
Isn’t there a central-node talent that could be introduced along the lines of "the highest your Peril gets, the less Peril you generate, but you also quell much slower ?
Or maybe just something that disables passive quelling, and gives some other bonus to balance that ?
Edit : I’m an idiot. Battle meditation is such a central node that I thought it was baked into the Psyker’s kit…
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Ok so, went through all of it. And there’s a lot there I think is fantastic and very welcome and I mean that!
But in order to contribute & keep it as brief as I can, I’ll focus on constructive criticism on the changes I wish to be re-addressed instead. Apologies in advance for not really suggesting fixes much, but I already spent a lot of time on this and need a break. I hope some of these at least get noticed, and ofc corrected where needed. 
Thanks!
Also, obviously a lot of what I’m about to say depends on how the tree works and what paths you can take. If many of them are mutually exclusive, it ofc. changes a lot of things. 
With that in mind:
- My Concerns & Critique -
Weapons
- Slab Shield
- Added ranged block properties during the Push…
- Iirc psykers also get hit by ranged through pushes with a Force Sword & Deflector. Any chance this could be addressed too (unless I’m mistaken)?
- Added ranged block properties during the Push…
- Flamers
- Penetrating Flame (1-4% Rending on Burn Stacks)
- The biggest one thing holding flamers back and maintaining their balance is armor
- This blessing is an automatic BiS meta, and will likely break endgame experience as a whole. Especially Auric HISTG & Mael.
- I firmly believe that flamers should never get rending & brittleness of their own, but require other sources or teammates to get there
- Penetrating Flame (1-4% Rending on Burn Stacks)
- Surge Force Staff
- Surge & Transfer Peril added
- Right now Surge can reach a 83.5% crit rate
- Between the numerous buffs like staff primary dmg, warp dmg, peril efficiency, overload immunity, Surge’s innate finesse dmg and now these two, the total buff here is staggering
- Surge & Transfer Peril added
- Heavy Laspistol
- Concentrated Fire & Weak Spot Hit (new +crit % blessings)
- Accatran already uses less ammo, has faster RoF & better finesse dmg mod. It has MUCH higher synergies with all things crit than Kantrael
- Kantrael is already the worse variant. Wouldn’t it be better to add blessings to support that instead of the Accatran that already has it all?
- Concentrated Fire & Weak Spot Hit (new +crit % blessings)
- Rumbler
- Shrapnel (4 bleed on close range)
- Explosion Zone (max +30% AoE radius)
- Between its already high dmg & stagger + Shattering Impact/Blaze Away + the now buffed Big Boom (+27.5% explosion radius), won’t this just transform the weapon into an on-demand clear-all weapon?
- Plasma Gun
- More buffs
- Why? It’s no secret plasma has been completely OP for a year running now.
- More buffs
Psyker buffs
- Malefic Momentum
- (Changed from +warp dmg to both → max +20% warp/non-warp dmg on non-warp/warp kill)
- Flat +20% buff to non-warp dmg, ie. gunpsykers & Assail
- (Changed from +warp dmg to both → max +20% warp/non-warp dmg on non-warp/warp kill)
- Warp Unbound
- (Scrier’s → overload immunity 10s after ending)
- Does this mean your casts get interrupted but don’t overload, or that you get unlimited casts at 100% peril?
- Bc if it’s unlimited casts, this is a massive buff to all things warp
- Many weapons, abilities & talents are balanced around their peril efficiency, which this ignores
- Imagine: 10s maxed Warp Rider, Warp Nexus etc. & all the new peril scaling talents & blessings while dishing out max casts with Trauma / Surge (with the new Surge blessing) / Smite & EP
- (Scrier’s → overload immunity 10s after ending)
- Channeled Force & Empyric Shock
- (Staff full charge secondary → +30% primary dmg /5s)
- (Debuff (Multiplicative): staff primary → Max +30% Warp dmg taken)
- Massive buffs to staff primaries, as I said before there’s a high risk for balance issues esp. with Surge, and the fire → quell → fire animation cancel trick that can easily reach 3-4x higher firing speeds than normal
- Souldrinker
- (SB kills → 5% toughness regen & +5% crit 5s)
- We already have Soulstealer (7.5% toughness regen on warp kill), SB tends to be AoE and and proc that a lot. Isn’t this superfluous?
- (SB kills → 5% toughness regen & +5% crit 5s)
- Other
- Penetration of the Soul (+10% rending on warp-atk when >75% peril)
- Empyric Resolve (-40% peril gen & -30% toughness regen)
- Tranquility Through Slaughter (non-warp crits → -4% peril)
- These are absolutely massive buffs, especially with Battle Meditation & Exorcist already there
- Melee buffs
- Charged Strike (Heavy atk → +electrocute dmg)
- Lightning Speed (+10% atk spd)
- Warp Splitting (max 100% Cleave, scales on peril)
- By Crack of Bone (WS kills → -5% peril & -20% peril gen /4s)
- Illisi esp. with Scriers is already ridiculously strong for melee, and no other weapon benefits as much from heavies & cleave as that
- These would do to Illisi the same thing the IoD nerf did to knife zellies: Push the already best weapon even further ahead of others
- New weapons
- As a massive shotty fan I’m elated for getting them on psykers
- But Scrier’s, Disrupt Destiny, True Aim + Man-Stopper & Scattershot (except psykers they might not need Scatter, leaving room for even more power) especially on Agri & Lawbringer is going to be highly problematic
- Lawbringer special can re-cap True Aim on every single shot indefinitely vs spread groups, Agri on lines
- Agri’s insane finesse dmg has a kind of emergent property where given enough +weakspot & crit dmg buffs, it will reach a point outdoing even a similarly buffed plasma. With Man-Stopper it gets that same cleave.
- Right now only a Marksman’s Focus vet can get there, with a heavy cost & a lot of skill required
- These changes would put psykers on similar terms (higher with their far better talent base dmg buffs) without those costs and more
- For reference: With just psyker’s current talents Argi ADS flak dmg would go from about 750 crit/ws dmg to 1230/1100, crit&WS from 1015 to 1600. It’s special critWS dmg would reach ~2800 flak, ~900-1000 carapace, all with infinite cleave. The new talents would further add to this. With True aim, psykers have the highest potential to force those massive crit&WS hits compared to any other class.
- BAG weapons
- The Agri BAG has about the game’s highest ammo efficiency (ammo*dmg), high mobility and great CC & dmg potential in general. With psykers needing all of that a lot more than the rest, I worry for balance. Although this isn’t nearly as concerning as most of the other stuff in here.
- The new Agile blessing (refresh Dodge Efficiency on Weak Spot Hit), if it works the way we all seem to think, will have dramatic consequences for all classes but especially psykers.
Zealot
- Invocation of Death (changed -1.5s CD / crit attack → +175% CD regen over 4s on crit attack)
- Better than before but considering a typical zelly’s crit rate, this translates to a constant -65% ult CD. More depending on curio CD perks.
- FoF & Stealth (base): 30s → 11s
- Stealth (Perfectionist, buffed from 45s → 37.5s): 37.5s → 13.5s
- Chorus: 60s → 22s
- Note Stealth (Perfectionist) is a 3s difference from Master-Crafted (duration 3s → 6s, now nerfed to 5s), making Perfectionist the future obvious and only choice
- Overall IoD is a massive buff across the board especially for crit builds
- Why not just give it an internal CD, but make it proc on hit (1 attack can hit multiple enemies) as before? This would set knives back & buff the slower weapons, without making it a must-have.
- Better than before but considering a typical zelly’s crit rate, this translates to a constant -65% ult CD. More depending on curio CD perks.
- Duelling Swords added
- While I love the idea of having all these weapons available on all classes, I worry for some of the consequences
- Duelling Swords are already a strong choice for psykers. Zellies and vets have the potential to reach much higher attack speeds & other crit / finesse synergies. Currently they also lack any fast & mobile weapons with reach and high armor pen (knives aren’t the same).
- Along with the many new rending buffs this will certainly help displace knives, finally, but it won’t help the other weapons any. It will also definitely help make armored enemies even less of a threat.
And that’s that. There was a lot more there but I’ll leave it at this, as these were my biggest concerns here.
tldr; I worry that there are far too many buffs, and some decisions like rending on flamers or the superfluous buffs to toughness regen or weapons or talents that are already crazy strong, will have a dramatic and negative impact on the overall balance of the game.
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About weapons added, i must say that I would not have added duelling swords to others classes.
The shovel, why not… The duelling sword… No
Chainaxes … Can’t understand their damages chart. It was done by a drunk programmer (sometimes you should hit with heavy, sometimes it is better with a light swing)
Recon, not sure what it will bring to zealot.
They must be blind to not see that there is a problem with plasma and zorona revolver.
Will disagree. Kantrael is the best laspistol. Accatran has its use, but kantrael is better in term of damages.
Blessinga are added to both variant.
You may have missed that we will be able to change the weapon variant now…
That’s my main concern. And I really think we have enough difficulty levels. I don’t understand. When I read the patch notes, what comes to my mind is: “they will broke entirely the game balance”.
I use to leave when I meet a plasma gun or a revolver veteran… If everything strong is buffed, while several weak weapons are left behind… My god, this is really pushing for more problems.
Sidenote: i don’t have a computer… Mainboard ceased to work… I wait for a new one… So everything is writen on a phone. So forgive me for errors i could do. Also i post less as it is really annoying to use a phone for that.
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“However, we made sure that the weapons that are key to the identity of each class will remain uniquely available to that class.”
- Maccabian Duelling Swords
- added also to Veteran and Zealot
Thats most contradictory things to say.
Zealot will keep 3 unique weapons: Evis, THammer,Crusher. Veteran 2: Shovel and Power sword.
Meanwhile Psyker will stuck with only Force swords as class identity… right.
On top of that this decision will break balance of game(in hands of veteran and zealot this weapon will be even more insane) and comepletely remove any point of playing melee psyker, because there is Dueling sword unique poking gameplay.
Revert this herecy!
p.s. More buffs to plasma? Are you alright there? Ez 100% crit builds with unlimited ammo, here we go.
p.p.s Zealot “Invocation of death” changes is way too much CDR.
p.p.p.s Adding Rending to Purgatus, really? CIVI Maelstrom will be a joke.
Why not make the strong plasma gun and power sword available to other classes?
The issue is this:
Kantrael’s base dmg is higher yes, but that’s where its advantages end.
Most blessings & talents proc on hits & crits, not kills. Accatran has a higher rate of fire and 50% more ammo, meaning it’s going to be stacking those hits & crits way faster and can keep doing that for 50% longer on the same ammo. With less recoil these consecutive shots are also way more accurate on it compared to the Kantrael.
Then you add its higher finesse dmg mod on top (all finesse dmg bonuses apply to the portion of extra finesse dmg only), which means any +weakspot or +crit dmg mods from talents & perks & blessings are going to give the Accatran more relative extra dmg on top of already scoring those types of hits more often.
And this all is my point. In a vacuum Kantrael would have more dmg & ammo efficiency (tho with ammo only barely). In practice, it falls far behind. This is why I don’t get why it needs even more crit blessings when it already does plenty, and the Accatran is the favorite for a reason. I’d much rather see something that favors the Kantrael instead. Like recoil reduction, increased base dmg, armor pen, ammo efficiency etc.
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Pretty sure the son of the director play vet with plasma