Unchained weapon idea

A class-exclusive weapon for the Unchained has been in discussion for a while now, and while talking with a friend about some possibilities, I got an idea we both found pretty cool, so I wanted to share it here.

A flaming greatsword (similar to Kerillian’s two-handed sword), with the following moveset:

  • First light attack: Horizontal swing, CC, similar to Kerillian
  • Second light attack: Diagonal swing from above or below, 2-3 targets
  • Heavy: Sienna slashes the sword towards the ground, hitting 1 target with the heavy itself and creating a short-range low-damage flame wave traveling away from her in a wide cone shape for CC that doesn’t generate overcharge (to make it more viable the flame wave could maybe stun the enemies a bit)

I think the combination of a heavy single target hit and CC in one swing fits the melee-focused Unchained class well while also creating unique playstyles since you could take out elites in front of you without having to worry about a horde behind them rushing you

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i think this is a great idea

I like the idea of a weapon with more CC/tankiness for her but the issue is, she can barely hold/swing a 1H mace let alone a 2H weapon on account of being an old af magic addict. I’d love something original that suits her identity like a flaming whip or a melee staff, things a smaller/weaker person could use effectively. Any of the traditional 2H weapons too much for her and she wouldn’t be able to swing them at all. It would also be cool to see a mid-range melee weapon like that.

To elaborate on my mace point, check out her stance/posture and swing with the “1H” mace in game and you’ll see what I mean, in that she kinda has to cradle it and we get the impression it’s right at the edge of the envelope when it comes to her ability to wield it.

yeah cuz an old lady wielding a flaming whip or using a staff to beat back large bodies of monsters or chaos knights is more realistic. @Avar you just don’t like the idea and you want your idea to be better.

A two-handed sword is heavy, that’s true.
But I don’t think Unchained is restricted to the classic way of holding a long sword.
Possibilities could be dragging the sword besides her and only lifting it for the swings/blocking, or, since she has armored gloves, supporting it with a second hand away from the sword guard when performing a move where the sword has to be lifted to a high position (like blocking or bringing the sword into position for the heavy)

This would ultimately mean that the attacks aren’t that fast, but in exchange for a good amount of damage it could work. With something like the heavy attack fire wave it could also be worth to take a longer animation into account since you could hit many enemies at once while not missing out on single target damage

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kinda like this

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Yeh, with the right animations conveying the weight/effort it’d still look proper and the flaming aspect would allow for the damage output to be comparable to that of other tanks, despite fewer hits and slower attack speed.

In that sense, I agree it would be very cool because despite being the same weapon others use she’d have entirely unique handling.

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Yeah… tank like Unchained or Zealot need more appropriate weapons.

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The Unchained is powered by magic… fire wind at that…

Not to mention that she is covered with chain and metal, meaning that she’s far from weak.

I truly don’t see your ‘too weak to use X’ point.

Just take a Firesword and punch a Mauler in the face… that 6-7 ft elite norscan warrior get staggered by a PUNCH from the Unchained.
A Fing PUNCH from her left bloody hand staggers a Mauler. She’s probably the strongest character physically speaking in the game when powered by magic :stuck_out_tongue:

Physically weak =/= weak. I mean she lacks physical strength. Her armor being metal doesn’t mean it’s as heavy as full plate. Her punch does damage because of magic, not because she’s physically exerting a lot of force.

I would think that you might be able to get around the physically weak restriction by just saying she uses magic. Then you could even give her a giant 2h double-sided axe for Unchained and basically say she’s roided out. Anti-armor weapon of fiery destruction.

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I couldn’t find much regarding Wizards and melee weapons, so I would think that Fatshark might just end up having creative freedom in regards to new melee weapons for Sienna. That or they could ask GW. As it stands, Sienna’s anti-armor choices are pretty terrible.

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Not that heavy really considering you’re using two hands to move it around. Or we could just give her a longsword or something instead of her current arming sword options.

I agree she does need a good melee weapon though. I mean Unchained is the “melee build” and she has basically no viable melee weapons for being a dedicated front line person.

Maybe tweak mace so it’s more effective and restrict it to Unchained? It needs something.

I trust Fatshark will continue to make decisions in keeping with the Warhammer lore as much as possible (as long as they retcon the conclusion to the End Times, please @_@)

Do you consider 2kg (4.5lbs) to be heavy?

Right but it’s not just that it’s 2kg, anyone can hold one. Thinking about the moment arm. Great swords and two handed swords are long and have considerable moment compared to their 1h counterparts. Similarly, a warhammer isn’t prohibitively heavy when carried but to swing it properly takes more strength and skill. This is also why these greatweapons are more powerful: greater force delivered thanks to greater moment.

The weight/moment can be seen in the other characters’ 2h sword animations.

“Unwieldy” may be a better term.

As I said, she can bolster physical force by using magic.

Full plates armour are well balanced on the body and therefore really easy to move around with. What the Unchained has is most likely harder to move around with.

Not to mention that many spells in the setting could increase the strength of combatant.

Hell even her character description says that she uses magic to be stronger than she should be as a mere mortal.

" Sienna Unchained has thrown caution aside, embracing every possible scrap of power from the Winds of Magic to strengthen her."

http://www.vermintide.com

Trust me, she can wield whatever she wants… be it a two handed hammer that would put Kruber to shame, or a 2 handed fire sword.

Unlike what Fatshark wrote in the beginning, Unchained isn’t really a melee class - it’s a tank class.
Yes, she’s got an ineffectual melee power bonus, but that mostly just brings her up to others levels.
I believe they could just tweak her existing weapons a bit before putting in effort for something new.
And I am all for adding new melee options; Thing is, with the ranged firepower she commands, those options will never be quite good.
A real two-handed weapon would have to be slow indeed; Fire magic isn’t physical strength, it won’t help her lift it one bit. When it comes to “apply magic directly to forehead”, clawed gloves would probably be more effectual, or a censer or a repurposed and reinforced focus staff - but if we already have a flame sword, why not one that’s 20% longer.
As others have written, it isn’t much harder to carry, it’d just be slower to swing.

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I agree, unwieldy is a better term. Maybe I misread Dominik because his post seems to suggest he thinks the sword is too heavy to even hold above one’s head, which is quite wrong. Also considering how unrealistic some of the weapons already are (that executioner’s sword is like a piece of sharpened railroad) I don’t think a two-handed sword for a wizard is anything of a stretch.

Also the mace Sienna has is probably a lot harder to control than a sword, since a sword has its balance a little past the guard. That oversized mace must weigh about the same but it has its balance much closer to the top. If Sienna managed to wield that thing effectively I’m sure she can handle a large sword too.

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That’s not the connotation of “strength” they’re referring to, though. The most melee buffage she can dole out is in the form of flaming swords and cloaks, which enhances damage by virtue of the burning. The ability to grant additional physical prowess doesn’t fall within the realm of the bright order, I’m fairly certain. I think the closest thing to magic affecting the wielding of weapons world be a Celestial Wizard’s Whirl of Daggers.

Hers the total war spell list for reference: https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Lore_of_Fire

Pretty much the same in Dark Omen, Shadow of the Horned Rat, and (I believe) tabletop.

The Jade order is probably the closest to being able to do what you’re referring: http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Colleges_of_Magic

I’ve yet to be convinced of your interpretation of a different meaning of “strengthen her”.

I’m aware that TT fire spells don’t give straight up physical strength buff, that I shall give it to you.

That being said, I still stand that according to the lore, it seems more than in the real of possibilities to have someone become stronger by the use of magic.
Not to mention that not every spells are represented in the lore. I mean… I’ve yet to see a Bright Wizard beam blast someone in the face during a TT game.
In other words, the spells from TT are only a small and representative selection from what a Wind of Magic can do in the lore, it’s far from being inclusive of every spells that exist in the setting.

Actually… now that I look at the official quote. It says: “power from the Winds of Magic to strengthen her.”

Winds being plural :face_with_raised_eyebrow: Little detail, even more so with the more than flagrant Bright wizard theme… but it does seem like the devs decided to leave some doors open lorewise.

Not to mention the the Warp does what the Warp needs to do…(everything AND nothing).

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