Traits need to be rework

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Feedback
21

Something I was thinking on was having the Heat Sink effect change based on which which career you’re currently on.

  • Battle Wizard: On proc, Tranquility can be activate while casting spells for X seconds.
  • Pyromancer: On proc, reduce overcharge generated by 50% for X seconds.
  • Unchained: On proc, damage taken from venting is reduced by 50% for X seconds.

The key thing here being that each effect can affect which L15 talent is picked. Either takes the one’s that stack with the proc effect to double the benefit, or pick a different one since the proc can fill that void.
This would need some heavy testing because it could very well be broken af. But it sounds more exciting to me. Reward doesn’t come without risk.

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That sounds interesting, certainly, but it might be too complex for sensible implementation. Also, there’s no precedent for that kind of thing in the game, so I’m not sure if the devs would be willing to do something like Career-specific Traits (well, ones that work differently on each applicable Career. And also also, you forgot Ironbreaker; he has heat weapons too.

1 Like
23

Well i’m not sure about reworking traits, i think most of them work fine, however a little while ago i wrote out a list of new traits that could be added. I copy pasted my trait list below.

Ranged:

Piercing Rounds: Your shots can cleave through more enemies
Speed Loader: Increases reload speed and arrow pullback speed by 20%.
High Velocity: Increases ranged projectile speed by 50%
Fast shooter: Increases ranged weapon ADS/spinup speed by 30% and fire rate by 15% (only applies to things like the repeater pistol, Volley Crossbow or anything with a +8 “magazine” and it doesn’t work on staves)
Ammo Pouch: Increases your maximum ammo by 25%.

Melee:

Crushing Blows: Your melee weapon deals 20% more damage, but you attack 10% slower.
Life Steal: Every 10 enemies you kill in melee grants you 1 permanent HP. (This would work well in combination with Natural Bond or anti horde weapons )
Evasive: Increases your dodge range by 20%

Necklace:

Last Stand: Upon reaching 5 HP or getting downed, you instantly gain 50% of your maximum health as temp HP and are revived if downed. 240 second cooldown.

Charm:

Renewed Vitality: Whenever you drink a potion, you gain a 50% damage reduction for 20 seconds.
Regeneration: Whenever you drink a potion, you regenerate 3 HP every second for the potions duration
Strong Brew: Increases potion potency by 25%.

Trinket:

Bomb Carrier: You can now carry 2 bombs.

2 Likes
24

I’m just throwing my ideas in the hat. Devs will scour though and see what they think works best, or use their own. I won’t lose sleep if mine aren’t picked.

25

Wasn’t there the something in the first game that gave additional magazine capacity? I am sure I had a graker with 3 shots in it…

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Yep, there was a ranged weapon property that increased the magazine size for weapons that used one. I don’t remember ever seeing (or at least using) it on anything besides Grudge-Raker or Volley Crossbow, though, and on GR, it was pretty much mandatory. I suspect if it were to be added here, it would be similarly near-mandatory on GR, at least when you’re playing RV who has access to unlimited ammo without Scrounger.

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You are probably right, but then again, all of the ranged weapon properties currently available are kinda useless on graker, at least for RV, while for IB, scrounger is mandatory to get more ammo. Graker doesn’t synergize too well with any of the properties and. Barrage would be awesome if all pellets were to count seperately, but that would also mean flatout 25% more damage with it. Hunter is also quesntionable on RV since he doesn’t get a crit bonus and CS and RSS… yeah, well. I run scrounger on my RV graker only because there’s nothing better out there.
I mean, drakefire weapons and staff have their TE trait and basically get 20% more “magazine” capacity if you will. You’r probably see mag size bonuses only on Shade’s VC and RV graker, anyway, since they have alternate ways to regain ammo. But it might provide alternatives

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Was it just a flat plus one ammo increase or based on a %? How would it work with BoP and other weapons?

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It depended on the weapons. On the GR it gave 4 ammo instead on 2, on RP it gave half the magazine.

30

Nothing exists in isolation, and of course - adjusting the traits will impact on everything. IF dodging is still king of defence then I suggest a the next pass over traits considers how those traits affect weapon types rather than career types.

The dodging mechanic has almost completely made 2h weapons and sword/board style virtually obsolete with only a couple of specific examples of 2h weapons being used. I very rarely see Bardin with 2h hammer, pick is used almost exclusively by slayer for specific things, no halberds (hehe) virtually never see a 2h sword for Kruber or VIcky, exe sword has a very narrow field of use and glaive/spear are lower down the pecking order of elf weapons now. Sienna’s mace is stuck in a drawer under her bed, never to be used again.

Dual Wield and 1h coupled with Swift Slaying to proc Crits is almost an arbitrary choice.

SO …

IF the dodge mechanic stays very similar to what it does now (I am in favour of a reduction in the dumb-time enemies spend gazing into space when you dodge but not re-introducing CW’s sliding up a flight of stairs) then the Traits can be used to rekindle the usage of the heavier weapons.

My personal feeling is that, as a team game the traits should be far more team beneficial as well.

Swift Slaying should have time limit on how often it can process crits as dual wield with SS and a crit build keeps the bonus up far too often and too long in many situations OR the weight of the weapon affects the amount of speed gained. Getting a higher speed bonus when wielding a 2h weapon that a 1h weapon. Dual wielding daggers should already be damn fast and the noticeable increase should be negligible.

Parry and Off Balance is now something of a niche use, as everyone is using dodge and blocking is only needed when you’re in real trouble. Timing your blocks when you’ve dodged yourself into trouble isn’t at the forefront of most people’s minds. It is possible that if these traits were more specifically targeted at specials/elites and they got a bit of stagger then they might become more valuable than simply dodging around the lumbering fools and windmilling into their back while they clamber about lifting their axe back up.

I’m not sure I’ve ever even seen Heroic intervention Proc. Really. Although this might be because no-one takes it. I’d like it to be when you have prevented an ally from getting hit like when I play HS and I shoot a CW about to overhead someone it should proc. Staggering the CW to prevent someone getting damage is a perfect example of how this should work. (I know it’s a melee trait but you get the idea).

@Yzneftamz has covered off the ranged very well, although I think some rework is needed as many of the ranged traits reward faster weapons. A couple of traits that really benefit things like the handgun would be nice. Ammo recovery traits could align with weapon speed, with slower weapons getting more back per shot.

My only problem with charms is grims. If you’re playing a tanky career it is almost assumed that the IB,UC,FK, Zealot will carry which means that person really shouldn’t worry too much about their charms as they never get the bonuses for the bloody things.

As a personal note, Sienna UC is far,far from being weak it’s just that we’ve been so used to seeing her in almost every match as a wigglemancer pyro that she’s probably settled into a sensible %age of play time. I regularly see BW and UC pulling their weight and if you think she’s weak trying getting damage stack with Crowbill in legend. 1 shot SV anyone?

[edit] Killing blow back please.
[edit 2] My wife glanced over my shoulder quickly and said "Why are you asking for killer blowbacks? Which kind of online nerds are you hanging around with?

2 Likes
31

To be fair, 2h hammer has been questionable choice even before the BBB, as is any weapon that doesn’t have the sweaps on light attack, simply because it’s unreliable and you can be interrupted. And getting interrupted by a horde while CC-ing it is something that’s always gonna destroy your rhythm and cost you. 2h hammer I use only on Slayer on the (infamous?) 2x2hammer setupt where you quickcancel your way through the map (and it is as ridicilous as it sounds, but you are virtually untouchable since you stagger everything to death). Pickaxe is still a very solid choice on IB since he needs neither blocking nor dodging, just the occasional push and the rest is handeld with drakefire (and being able to one-hit kill CW with a single charged heavy headshot is nothing short of awesome). While I do also see the issues you’ve mentioned, I would be lying if I said I didn’t see other weapons. In fact, I am under the impression that I have never seen such build variety played on most carreers (disregarding the king of comedy-combat, A&F Zealot and his friends WHC and BH). Only thing I almost never see is Keri with 1h axe (and to be honest: why would I?) and 1h sword (still one of the strongest weapons in her arsenal, but realistically, only on HM, but on her, it’s an allround weapon void of any noticable weakness). Same goes with ranged weapons.

pls no. :frowning:

She’s looking out for you so you don’t hang out with the troublemakers and lose your allowance rolling dice :smiley: . She is a good waifu.

1 Like
32

To be fair, I’d rather see it as a weapon property than a trait. Make it so it gives between 50 and 100% magazine capacity similar to how Stima gives 1 or 2 stamina depending on your roll. It would still be a choice since you’d have to potentially sacrifice those 10% damage you need to hit certain break points, but would give you more variety on your build since you might be able to ditch that reload-speed bonus or stuff like that.

33

I’ve found the opposite. Avoiding hits is so easy now that big, slow weapons with fewer dodges are more powerful than ever.

Some good suggestions in this thread. The suggestion about inverting some of them has some interesting possibilities.

34

I don’t think we should even attempt to balance traits around the current dodge.
It can’t possibly stay like this forever.

2 Likes
35

So much this. Please FS, consider looking at dodging and mobility before you look at rebalancing traits and such.

Edit: Just saw the thread on dodges, so I’m moving my comments over there.

1 Like
36

Here are some traits I would like to see some changes in:

//Melee//

Heroic intervention needs to work in more situations. Give the helped and helper increased movement speed and a shield (blue hp like in VMtide 1, not THP which is oversaturated imo).

Opportunist you could look into halving push cost and gaining shield/THP on killing that target in x number of seconds after push. You could also consider getting piercing on an armoured target that has been pushed, making light weapons that are garbage against armoured, much better with this perk.

Resourcefull combatant
I think that this is a hard trait to balance in it’s current form. If you increase the CDR or reduce the CD of this trait you just end up with people mashing their ult. If you nerf it too hard, then it’s a useless trait. Imo this one needs to be removed or completely reworked.

//Necklace//
Hand of Shayla should have some benefit on draughts as well.

//Charm//
Concoction should have a duration cut of 25-33% to make it a little more relevant to choose.

//Trinket//
Explosive ordinance should focus on creating an area of effect. For instance reducing movement speed and attack speed of the targets afflicted. Or creating an effect on the ground that snares enemies that walk through it. Or melting armor of all afflicted etc.

//General advice//
Try to enable different playstyles. Go big with this change, take some risks and be creative. Tune/balance everything later. Right now most traits don’t enable much and most feel rather bland.

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