Item Traits and build variety

Im not sure if anyone else out there is like me, but almost every item I wear across the board has the same traits, not because they themselves are overpowered (although a case could be made for SS) but because other traits are so lackluster.

Melee - Swift slaying, is obviously top tier, in my opinion is mostly due to the fact its an offensive trait, which most of the others are not, in higher difficulties, modest mitigation is fairly useless due to enemy damage output, and a lot of the weapon traits are too situation to really take advantage of. There are soooome, other variant builds like timed block handmaiden, or CDR dagger shade, that are viable, but more often then not, SS is still the better route. I propose (especially if SS gets nerfed) we examine other possible weapon traits, such as a bleed, or increased power proc, or static boost to specifically charged attacks, ect that could be a trait (heroic killing blow, could be fun to have back, since its standard counterpart was a little too strong in v1)

Ranged - I almost always run conservative, because I tend to use precision weapons, and head hitboxes are pretty big in this game, occasionally some weapons work better with scrounger, but I feel like its not as widely used, or in the very least is somewhat situational. Barrage used to be good for 1 shot gimicks but I feel like it fell off a bit with BBB changes.

Neck- Boon of Shallya, is just too good, increased THP generation with its healing boost is amazing across the board, it works with GK and WS regens, and makes your health pots more useful, a lot of the neck traits (sans imo Barkskin and NB) are pretty solid post changes (barkskin zealot and NB Unchained used to be cheese) but I still almost always lean into Boon

Charm: Concoction, its just good in every situation, not having to get a specific potion when you need X to clutch a game, is absurdly useful, and given the roster I tend to play, it just always makes more sense. The potion spread is also really strong but, it loses a lot of its usefulness outside of premades imo

Trinket: Shrapnel, this was mostly just good for back when 1 shot gimmicks were popular, but with how poorly scaled grenades are in Cata, using it for the damage boost is really all grenades are good for, making it the obvious choice.

What do you guys think, do you prefer other traits, what new competitive traits would you like to see?

(P.S sans capping Sienna, I dont play with heat based weapons so i’ll refrain from commenting too much on them, I dont really enjoy the playstyle, so someone else can chime in here.)

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No argument on Swift slaying being silly dominant, only a handful of weapons run opportunist instead and…is it only dual daggers that can run parry well or can any others?

Cant help it i am afraid, sniping weapons will always be the best with conservative since ammo is precious. And for careers/builds that can ignore it well…sniping weapons dont tend to get much help from barrage and they cant trigger hunter consistently enough.

Boon&barkskin are the only ones that arent conditional or very random thus they are the best, NB meanwhile…why ever run it on a difficulty where 1 normal hit can chunk half your healthbar out the window? The only time it´s good is against chip damage.

Decanter is plenty good on careers that like ability spamming when it counts such as Grail Knight or Shade. The “Share” one does take a bit more coordination but its still good enough as it is.

I honestly like the Grenadier trait a lot, since bombs at times are scarce and the bonus damage against bosses doesnt stack with other such sources anymore according to some patchnotes from sometime.

The wider range one meanwhile could be better even if it does work on Ranger veteran.

The biggest issue here is bomb damage is scaled down to Vet damage numbers for Cata, so they are essentially useless, aside from knockback tools

Feel like this topic has been talked to the death already but yes pretty much 100 % agree on anything in the op.
I feel like nearly everything in the traits department just needs to be rebalanced again. Switftslaying needs competition badly, conservative can be extremely problematic depending on career and player using it and then we have the other 90 % of traits which are rarely if ever even considered.

…Are they? I still wipe out normal enemies with fire bombs and a normal one still chunks a clustered stormvermin patrol.

…

Well even if they are then they are still plenty useful.

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No they are not. This was fixed a while ago.

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got the notes on it, never saw the update on this one

Fixed since Engi dropped

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For the few careers I use on Cataclysm I neither use Swift Slaying, nor Boon of Shallya, nor Concoction. And I don’t feel I’m missing out on anything. There are some traits which are to niche, there are traits which are too effective at what they do.

But traits can’t be changed alone. It should be done in one sweep together with properties. In contrast to my initial thinking there aren’t that many changes to the system needed. Especially properties are quite systematic and functional already but need some minor changes and replacement. Traits do need some more changes, mainly to reel in the outliers on the top. I think I reached a point which is more balanced but still needs (heavy) number tinkering. There are three “problematic” changes though which community would oppose but are necessary.

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I’m on the edge of my seat here. Are these in another thread or are you just being mysterious not saying what they are? :stuck_out_tongue:

I am mysterious for the extra edgy feeling.

I am not sure 100 % if I want to present them. Mainly because I am not completely finished, because I fear they will be either ignored or ripped and because I am considering to trying to mod them (although I am 100 % sure I dont possess the patience and/or skill and 50 % sure it wouldnt be really possible to create a mod for this).

If there is something you want to know we can talk in PM though. I will be less edgy there.

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Necklace: Barkskin is by far and away the best necklace talent, Boon is aright. The rest are memes

Charm: All the traits are pretty good except for Home Brewer

Trinket: All decent options

Melee: Swift Slaying or bust tbh

Ranged: Actually a decent variety of options here barring inspirational shot which is just a straight up meme

Like really, traits aren’t really that far off balanced outside the melee and neck traits

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Mostly the melee traits need a rework, and a few ranged ones. Neck is alright-ish, but I think I’m the only one who considers nat bond useful in some niche situations. The traits for potions and bombs are fine.

Properties are a different situation: On weapons they’re mostly fine and offer plenty of viable options, while on necklace most are useless and some are must-takes. And then there’s things like respawn speed…

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To be fair Opportunist has a pretty strong niche on a good number of weapons/careers and parry would probably see a decent amount of use if everyone wasn’t already running 60% BCR (which is I guess itself a consequence of lacklustre necklace property options). RC is also probably just a number tweak off being competitive on high cooldown careers, so I don’t think even melee traits are in that dire a state. Definitely the worst of the categories though.

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Incan baby I love you, you my boy but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Respawn speed could be integrated into revive speed property for it to become a decent choice, or revive speed property would need to work on all disabled states and make the character running with the property to be revived faster too. It could be a pretty competitive property and make sure the 5% crit and 30% stamina regen combo isnt dominating all other builds.

When it comes to weapon traits.

Fatshark have 3 options when it comes to swift slaying.
-leave it as it is
-nerf it
-remove it

The best option would probably be to remove it so that people wouldnt be forced into maxing out crit chance just to get ss to proc more often. Or fatshark could change it to a flat 3-5% chance on every strike/hit so that other properties could get some love from players.

Fatshark should reintroduce strength in numbers, it could be a pretty good trait in v2.

Make enemies become tagged in white or light blue when a character block an attack with the 20% dmg against those enemies. That can make it a decent trait, it should also stack with all other similar effects.

Rapier’s alt shot resets parry window without releasing block, so that’s quite nice to nope a CW overhead…

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There is a plethora of potential stuff they could do with the Swift Slaying problem. While I personal would be very content with the erasure of the trait, I can live without the burning forum experience. So, I dont think removing it will happen. Removing the crit trigger would be one way to go about it. Personally, I would probably leave it in the game, buff the potential attack speed bonus to 35 %, change the calculation for the attack speed bonus caused by traits and give another indirect nerf to it. Would bring it in balance overall.
Another alternative would be to go to the assy-route and simply deactivating ANY THP gains while Swift Slaying is active. More damage for more risk.

Changing the trigger is probably the best idea. Every X-th headshot? Random chance on hit?

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I still rather like the V1 method of triggering. Most slower weapons were higher cleave therefore had more chance of a proc per swing to balance their slower attack speed. I probably wouldn’t bring over it being linked specifically to light or heavy attack though. That’s too much of a nightmare to balance with how many weapons there are nowadays, and we don’t need effectively duplicate traits clogging up the trait pool and making rerolling even more obnoxious.

The only weapons that would really suffer under this system are those that are both slow and low cleave (struggling to think of an example of such a weapon), or maybe just super low cleave weapons like 1h axe.

Honestly to be truly balanced it would probably need to have a proc chance that is individually tuned for each weapon but that’s obviously a pipe dream.

Whatever they went with it’d have to be better than on crit right? Currently it just skews the importance of crit chance so damn much. Also it could definitely afford to be nerfed down to 15%, but the only way any kind of SS nerf isn’t causing an uproar is if it’s paired with the introduction of a bunch of other new, exciting traits, or significant buffs/redesign of a number of the other traits (we all know which ones).

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