It’s gonna be one of those grandfathered in bugs looks like.
Boy won’t you feel silly when some months down the road you’re told it was always intended this way.
2 Likes
I was more thinking suppress stamina regen during slide (have a planned post on it for the dueling sword thread) and/or make forward slides cost stamina, but wasn’t 100% sure that that works on people besides psyker / wanted to do some testing before posting. Part of a larger set of work on mobility and kiting being an issue (really just the kiting part, repositioning is fine, being able to infinitely kite is not).
Or just treat recon lasguns like TLHS by giving them a negative crit mod and 0.1 finesse multiplier.
That’d do it.
I’m not sure if it’s weird and a mistake for sliding to be free, or if it’s weird and a mistake for the sprint-key + forward movement key to not simply default to sliding. But I’m pretty sure it’s one or the other.
At the end of the day personally having these outliers is fine I just want the current Meta to be changed up a bit. Its been what 6 months since a big balance change (for humans at least, glad Ogre is getting some stuff even if stuff like the Ripper Gun changes have taken far, far too long).
It’s not just nerfting outliers. But what if some of the under preforming weapons were better. Not even super strong just good. I just want more variety in good feeling weapons. It’s probably the primary thing that has made me stop playing Darktide.
We can have both. Ideally every balance patch would have a higher ratio of buffs to nerfs. In fact, it’s a wasted opportunity to have a patch with a bunch of buffs and no nerfs, and bad PR to have nerfs without any buffs. Spoonful of sugar and all that jazz.
Frankly, this should really go without saying. We shouldn’t be responsible as lowly rejects giving feedback to have to constantly assuage peoples whataboutism whenever we request a nerf. That’s Fatshark’s job! Well, mostly StrawHat’s job, but also Fatshark’s job!
8 Likes
There is a third option, which is to embrace the powercreep, buff stuff so it’s not too terribly behind the best stuff, but also to increase the amount of enemies/reduce player down time to compensate.
I prefer this approach, but unfortunately the game may have technical limitations preventing Fatshark from fully embracing it.
Some nerfs are appropriate, but I’m virtually always in favor of a gentler touch, and Fatshark, like most developers, tends to overdo it.
FS has a special gift for overdoing it, not only do they overnerf, but they take forever to make another buffing adjustment as is required; yeah I know I’m not saying anything new.
Seems to me the limitations are human ones, not tech ones. It seems like a perfect storm of poor management, time allocation, personnel allocation or lack of devs, poor planning and prioritization, lacking QA etc. etc.; all things factors that prevent sensible tweaks in a timely manner and follow-ups.
It builds up, frustration increases for player and devs too I’m sure.
Except OFC all things ogryn up until very recently, they had no trouble having him be the guinea pig and the only one on the chopping block.
And on the subject of balance, I’m not a fan of powercreep but if the 3 humans are always 2-3 tiers ahead of ABetterHuman, it doesn’t feel good or fair. How far will he be behind the 3 humans come April?
So is the solution to give oggie some (temp) power-creep too? No…except maybe yes? And then they can all be nerfed a bit together? IDK…
Let’s hope the changes make ogryn more palatable for all (not just the 1337 few) I’m a bit mistrustful of the info we have without hands-on random and varied in-game experiences (by the general player base).
5 Likes
Wait wait wait wait a minute…
isn’t the powercreep literally a handful of outliers right now?
DS, PG, Bolter, Infernus, Knife, Zealot’s talent synergies/stacked placement, Gold Toughness/VoC, Thrust and Brittleness blessings where they don’t belong, and CDR? And Emphatic Evasion (ty @Durandal94, I did indeed forget)
That’s it, right? Like this is the whole topic?
Why can’t we nerf these things? The only thing here that’d be complex is Zealot’s tree.
I mean I thought last week we were mostly pining for the rest of everything else to get tweaked to match the current game?
9 Likes
I don’t know man, we’ve got pretty high density as it is and I no longer believe throwing more enemies at the problem is going to fix it. I mean, we tried that. Thrice! (Aurics, Maelstroms, Havoc) and yet the issue persists!
At a certain point I’d rather they try a different solution.
2 Likes
Prolly for the same reason they can’t slip in 1-2 lines of Lua on a few weapon templates they broke ~6 months ago, uh, it’s above your pay grade.
#Reasons
#EmprahWorksInMysteriousWays
3 Likes
Don’t forget empathic evasion on psyker making you immune to ranged attacks
3 Likes
Always funny when people pretend it’s somehow more simple and risk free to buff literally 100+ weapons and ~200 talents and literally every single enemy and tweak spawn logic instead of just reigning in the like 5 outliers. Real quality logic at work.
And even if this was somehow a feasible thing to do, imagine how funny it’ll be when they accidentally buff something to a new powerlevel not seen before, stronger than gold toughness spam duelist sword. What’s that? We’re gonna have to buff the 100+ weapons, 200 talents and all enemies AGAIN to get on that NEW powerlevel? Right on it chief
11 Likes
It’s actually not any harder to give a small damage buff to 20 weapons than it is to 5. A buff isn’t necessarily a complete overhaul. Darktide has a lot of weapons that have incredibly low pickrates.
it’s actually literally 4x as much work to balance 20 weapons than 5, believe it or not. You also left out how basically no talents are as good as shout or psykinetics aura, so we need to buff all of them too.
And as I said, if you just “Buff everything instead” you end up with a selection of weapons that completely overpower the other part of the game, the enemies. Then so what now? Now you also have to buff the enemies. Then probably after this massive undertaking of tweaking hundreds of things and then buffing the enemies, you either accidentally forgot to consider some weapons when buffing every enemy, and now they suck again. Or you accidentally forgot an interaction and now a weapon is stronger than the dueling sword was.
So what now? Do you cling to the “never nerf anything, just buff the other stuff instead” and repeat the cycle? Or do you just do the normal thing and reign in the outlier? If the latter, then why not do that to begin with before the gargantuan undertaking of “just buffing everything”?
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This is just factually incorrect. Complete overhaul? Yes. Changing one value? Not even close. Do you play any other games other than. Darktide? Sweeping changes to simple things like damage values are common. It is literally just changing a value.
Go look at the changes made to Ogryn weapons and some of the human weapons they buffed in this patch and tell me this is just “one value changing”
I’ll save you the effort, here:
Cleaver changes
This is not just “buffing one value” and this is what’s required to make a weapon good. Do you honestly and seriously believe they should “just do this” for 10x more weapons than they actually have to? They have to do this to every single weapon to bring it up to dueling sword level? You are insane
4 Likes
I literally just said they could implement a small damage buff to the worst performing weapons and that this is easier than overhauling as a way to test the waters, and your retort is “but complete overhauls are hard so it would be a lot of work!”.
Christ.
They couldn’t because that wouldn’t do anything. a TH will never be as powerful as a dueling sword with just “small damage buffs”
They don’t need to be. They need to be not totally awful. Damage goes a long way in accomplishing this. If one small buff doesn’t work they can always fine tune later as needed.
Honestly, if most weapons did a bit more damage and had a bit better movement speed, just about everything would be at least decent.