This is what happens when Fatshark Sleeps on Balance and UX For Too Long

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
1

Edit:

I had time, so I updated the thread to make the point clearer.

Havoc toxic by nature design is about to get even more restrictive and this might hurt the playerbase. Poor Havoc user experience, pointless restrictions, wasting time in party finder, player sentiment about game balance, all of that is going to chip away at the player population, and sooner or alter this is going to catch up even with more organised / regular players.

Self-policing and gatekeeping as a balance measure works, but I would imagine the small Havoc playerbase is about to get even more fractured, smaller, and silo’ed.

While I LIKE some of the QoL improvements this mod offers, I’m concerned about further fracturing of the player population, especially in game modes like Havoc. The gmae is also struggling balance wise, the base game difficulties, which offer the most flexibility if you just want to press a button and play the game, are just not fun for long term / experienced players. Meanwhile Havoc user experience is worse than ever, with poorly balanced classes, and difficulty modifiers, which is especially visible in pub Havoc games. This mod might just be the last straw which breaks the camel’s back, further reducing avaiability of pub Havoc games. The current party finders offers no channel to communicate their preferences to joiners; what classes or roles the team would like to fill to complement their current team members. Without mods, you cannot also view builds of existing team members when attempting to join, in case you are actually willing to fit around the team’s needs.

Before some anti or pro elitism nonsense gets introduced there. I say this as a H40 player, who often plays with regular gaming buddies, and I can see the advantages and disadvantages to automatic player filtering. No more H11 with blue / purple items, trying to join H40 lobbies, sure. On other hand more casual / solo Havoc players who try to play some Havoc games are likely to face more frustrations when joining parties, and might decide, they rather play a game which is instantly available.

I find multiple Dartkide systems extremely poorly designed, from the general mission selection screen offering no real player agency, to those systems being even further restrictive in what maps and modifiers you can play in Havoc. The game has 20+ “maps”, yet we are forced to play 4 out of 20+ in Havoc, over and over again. What gives?

2

Haven’t they been doing this anyway? just without the mod. Self isolating… but there will always be a META a slightly better way to play with this many variables.

FS only mistake was not to open Havok up more with better match making and opening up lower difficulties to quick play.

3

About to? This mod has been out for a while now. People are already using it.

4

People’s been using mods to check loadouts for ages, it’s not a big deal, if anything, it needs to be added as a base feature.

But auto-declining console player is based tho, other games let us opt-out from crossplay and afaik it’s aleady possible for console users

5

I need to complain about this toxic mod. I need someone who can nicely explain why this mod is harmful to the Havoc game mode. I would also draw attention to other toxic mods by the same author

6

I don’t think this mod changes anything for people who already accept only the best builds and never accept things like FOTF/Shroud Zealot or Gun Scum.

7

The devs don’t care. Why should you? Just host your own lobbies unless it’s a pox gas map (a quick lose with 90% of the teams).

To Fatshark keeping radio silence is the best strategy. They can welcome both mod users and vanilla players into their game, so both can spend money.

8

Havoc needs an unranked game mode at the rank just below max. For example, my current mission rank is 32, but I want to practice at 31 without risking a drop in mission rank. Let it be the same map and the same modifiers as rank 32, but the game would be rank 31. Once I’ve properly leveled up at that rank, then I can try 32

9

What do you have against console players?

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It won’t. It affects lobbies which you can join - and they have to be running this mod in the first place - but as long as you can run your own games without any policing mods, then it’s not really a big deal.

Also this has nothing to do with FS not performing balance changes - the game by itself doesn’t leverage build inspection in any way, so if people want to optimise for increasing their odds at passing their assignment, lest they get demoted, can you really blame them for using measures that the game does not provide easily?

Like at best you can inspect people by running up to them on the Mourningstar and seeing what their build is, but doing that to people possibly in other lobbies is not feasible and a sisyphean ordeal, and even a simple lookup mods leverage that to an acceptable level (i.e., inspecting through social tab UI or through party-finder UI). This doesn’t drive toxicity - if people are toxic, they will be even without mods.

11

This should be in the game by default along with the inspect option.

12

The reaching just to somehow by any means involve balance in it :rofl:

Do you guys know why there is such a drought in Europe right now? You might think its because of the record breaking hot weather and a minimal rain with snowless winters, but in reality its because of Fatshark sleeping on the Balance For Too Long!

13

This looks like a basic QOL tool that enables host player choice, not something toxic.

14

I’m not calling this mod toxic, in fact I wrote before it would be nice to have those kind of filters in Havoc, I’m just saying there are other impacts there too.

15

It just let the player do what he already did, but automatically, if anything it would reduce frustration and subsequently toxicity

17

I don’t know what he have, but they playing with gamepad and it ain’t halo.

18

Probably because they’re on gamepad (as someone who plays gamepad on PC, I kinda get it), and console players both 1) are typically, through selection bias, more casual players and 2) don’t have access to mods that arguably make the game easier/makes it easier to win matches. That’s what I would assume at least

19

Nah, the argument is as old as the consoles vs PC theme. Keyboard and mouse setups has some issues for sure, but gamepads are terrible for fast paced first person “shooter” games. They lack precision, and few players can compensate for those that. Also DT performance on consoles is questionable. Then is likely the human factor, and people perceiving console playerbase as more casual, which I treat with a pinch of salt, but very few console players in our Havoc lobbies feel comfortable at that level of intensity.

20

Yes, I can read dates too…all I’m saying this is a process. Depending on how people use this mod, they are very likely not even see that they are dening people. Less organised Havoc players, who don’t play with groups are likely to get more frustrated with the Havoc party finding system, play the game less or stop all together. Sooner or later is going to affect even semi and more organised groups who play with few friends.

Can we think about potential impact in the future? Havoc party finder is absolute time waster for people who try to join public games. I like some aspects of this mod, I also don’t like H10 players with blue gear applying to H40 lobbies, but there is more to this.

Base difficulties are simply not fun anymore for many people, but at the same to access Havoc you are forced to jump through pointlessly aggravating systems and hurdles. Is it that hard to introduce “casual” Havoc difficulty games to the general mission selection screen?

21

I’m sure they will either apply another bandaid to a gaping chest hole, or keep blight in rotation while releasing another mortis trials. Only thing you can do at this point is host your own map.