and i don’t mean modifier, you should tweak it so it’s not possible just go entire runs with spamming ammo hungry weapons with 3-4players in the team. As far as i know it also spawns ammo if you are low on it or medpacks if you are low on hp so people can just spam their guns and don’t switch to melee even on hi damnation. It really dumbs down the gameplay as there is basically no ammo management
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I think the problem can go both ways. Much more strict ammo management would punish people who play conservatively or with more of the “basic” weapons (Kantrael Lasguns, normal Autoguns) than people who spam with bolters, stubbers, or flamers. People who spam will be low on ammo more, so they’ll be taking all the pickups.
Maybe a change like this is still necessary, even if there is sone growing pains for a few months while people figure out the new ammo economy, but I wouldn’t be up for a drastic change (small reduction in total ammo would be fine I think).
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Maybe some mission modifier, where you have less range enemies and a general supply shortage in the area. Zola could drop an Ammo Box on fixed positions.
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Been of the opinion that ammo pick-ups could be redone into supply points.
In the map Hab Block investigation event with the Nurgle Tree (that’s the official name) there’s two areas that seem to always have ammo drops, kind of like a supply depot. It seems like a good design, to me. If more maps did that and had less RNG drops in the rest of the map that may or may not achieve the desired result. People with low ammo weapons could use their guns more and absurdly wasteful players would just be empty after each room. Maybe. Ammo reserves are really generous. But the game also wants players to shoot.
One problem I noticed with the current system is that ammo drops before an arena event seem to be overly randomized. I remember one time we were doing a damnation excise vault mission and we get to the final arena where there is a med station and two large crates. The med stations are always fully stocked but the crate contents are random and out of five potential spawns all we got was a single ammo pickup, and not even a big one. The arena did have some ammo drops in it but overall supplies were pretty tight for us.
Vermintide avoids this problem simply by having unlimited ammo crates placed right before difficult arena events. While I don’t think that would work in Darktide, I think there’s a balance you could strike between the two where drops tend towards an average instead of just giving the team nothing if they get unlucky.
I think the director seems to run hot or cold on ammo. It should be putting pressure on the team sometimes during missions, not just spending whole runs removing ammo from the team or whole runs glutting them.
But I’m tired of hearing this OH NO THE TEAM HAS AMMO IN A SHOOTING GAME conversation. Ammo conservation is boring. Its not a fun mechanic. I have a cool gun and I want to use it.
Edit; i should say that ammo conservation is a necessary mechanic that adds desirable complexity. But making the game ammo scarce to force melee combat is boring and bad design.
6 Likes
This
It is not possible to do an entire run and using guns that uses a lot of ammos.
If you have 4 players that use weapons like bolter (full auto mode), kantrael or lawbringer shotgun, flamer, autopistol etc. and that they don’t try to watch their fire, believe me, you will run out of ammo really soon enough.
The problem is not that. The problem is the ammo system. Your proposition will lead to a problem for the veterans. I repeat that we have toxic players that don’t care of the team and steal every ammo box they find.
I know that it is not realistic, but I tend to think that when picking an ammo it should give less ammos but shared between all the team. Off course, the fact that one player is full on ammos should not permit an other player to get more ammos.
Also, they need to increase the ammos reserve of several guns… revolver, shotguns, infantry autoguns, autopistols are the ones I think at first.
Then, here, I would agree to allow less ammo on maps.
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Yeah, ammo vacuums are annoying but not as annoying as people, who constantly push and ignore ammo/grenades/plasteel etc. (even on damnation) when I have full pouches, and then when I need some ammo they become vacuums.
You’ve been running empty and ignoring my markers for half a map ZELOT why must thee grab this box of ammo now?!
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I tend to not take ammos if I don’t need them… except if noone take them.
About plasteel (yeah diamantine, everybody has plenty of it), this make me angry to see players that just want rushing the map and don’t even try to check around them and let 60% of the plasteel…
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It all depends if you have a veteran in your team or not, without it ammo hungry weapons require a minimum of ammo management. I think this problem will automatically fix itself when more classes get introduced in the game. Also, since we are here, i want to outline that with a vet in the hunting ground modifier, the pack of hounds are basically a ammo crate.
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Aura aptitude of the veteran should be limited to the veteran itself… and not the entire team.
I agree is the best aura, but if it’s limited to just the vet it’is in contrast to the design of the classes that all have some little utility to coherecny allies, they could make it an iconic and give Vet someting elese but vet alredy is very strong, this would buff him even more.
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I think balance-wise classes are pretty balanced with Zealot on top and the best players I see (those who carry the hardest) are ogryns in the “top skill” category.
They could probably swap the +15% weakspot damage to aura and ammo regen to vet only. I wouldn’t even be mad, although it would hurt “infinite ammo” weapons like rumbler a lot.
On a total side note this swap could increase toxicity, where Vet’s picking up ammo would be frowned upon very heavily (due to the innate regeneration).
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Oh, My Manly-Manperor no! The war for ammo would be disastrous. Currently some of more reasonable players rely on ammo provided by vet occasionally nibling ammo box or 2. Without it I fear Orgryns might want to drop their guns and equip vet to have a backup melee / throwing weapon.
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Maybe I should have added that I was talking about a change that would be linked to my idea of ammo picked that would have been shared with the entire team.
But let’s be honest… nothing of this will happen…
that’s why I cannot be in favor of less ammo in damnation
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I don’t think there would be room for toxicity, vets alredy always have this benefit an no one is flaming them for picking ammo when they need, it’s pretty reasonable to assume that a class that shoots a lot can’t be compleatly sustained by some small ammo rigen, what i hate the most is Ogryns spamming their ripper gun at evry encounter and hogging all the ammo.
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Noted. Yep, that would work. On the other hand there have to be some sort of punishment for “rushers”.
If I’m checking every nook and cranny to find plasteel and diamantide (hope against all odds it will be useful one day, and my 18k of it can be used for something) or ammo I don’t think Zealot half a map away should get his share untill there is some sort of appology or remorse.
While this sounds like a reasonable take, based on my experience in VT2 I’m pretty sure this could be an issue (elf got no ammo pickup since it had regen). This would be especially hard for weapons that you would use against horde on Vet (like braced).
I think this would be a good change btw, +weakspot damage is pretty good for a lot of weapons to hit breakpoints, and the weapon’s ammo could be balanced better. I’m just really worried it would mean that vets shouldn’t pick up ammo.
I mean to be realistic, almost all vet’s weapons need pickups (apart from lasgun), with the full party suddenly way shorter on ammo would probably not be happy with Vet bringing something like a bolter, a plasma, or an anti-horde ranged weapon like braced or autopistol, but maybe it’s just my imaginations.
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As veteran, I pick ammo only if I need. But, I consider that a veteran has a priority against an ogryn or a zealot.
If I am zealot, I take ammos only if veteran and ogryn don’t need them, as I consider that my axe is enough to handle everything.
The only situation where I am upset is that when I see someone shooting everywhere and picking ammos without even checking if the others could need them. Then here, if I need ammo, I don’t care I take before he will steal them. This happen mostly with flamer / boltgun used in auto / infantry autogun / autopistol and stubbers of Ogryn…
Off course when you try to ask people to take in consideration the needs of the team, you, or receive no answers and they continue, or they just tell you that they are not noob and try to explain you that they need ammo more than you (special mention of the flamer’s users)
Yes, i reconize this so much evry so often i find such players that just spam their low ammo weapon and then constantly stealing ammo forcing you to be very conservative with yours. Unfortunatley there is no really help for this situation.
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