The scareboard performance of the Inferno Staff—is it really an OP weapon?

Firstly, the Auric difficulty and below. The following scoreboards are all from my recent random Auric Hi-Intensity Shock Troop Gauntlet. Neither the Venting Shriek nor the Shield Inferno Staff showed any particularly outstanding performance. Since the Inferno Staff primarily relies on stacking Soulblaze to deal infinite Cleave dot, it can also trigger Perilous Combustion via Kinetic Flayer to further accelerate Soulblaze stacking, resulting in large area dot kills with over 16 stacks of Soulblaze. However, in reality, most elite enemies are killed by other teammates before the stacks can build up, and without Kinetic Flayer’s cooldown ready, the Inferno Staff has no burst damage against single targets. Additionally, the Inferno Staff build relies on Brain Rupture to deal with distant Specials. In short, compared to other weapons with limited Cleave, the Inferno Staff pays a clear price for its infinite Cleave: lack of burst damage and precise long range single target kill. This is why I consider the Inferno Staff to be a fairly average weapon in Auric.
















Let’s further discuss Havoc. Havoc 40 greatly increases both the number and health of enemies, especially Groaners and Poxwalkers, whose Hit Mass has been significantly increased.

These changes make it easy for large numbers of elites to pile up, allowing the Inferno Staff to trigger Perilous Combustion frequently, resulting in chain-reaction kills. From this perspective, the Inferno Staff does indeed seem like an OP weapon in Havoc.

Does it really? Below are scoreboard records from my recent Havoc 40. These unfamiliar Psykers who provided this data are all between level 200 and 1000, and they have all completed Havoc 40 since the last major update. Categorized based on the Inferno Staff Psyker’s Combat Ability and whether the squad is equipped with strong team protection skills (Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude or Loyal Protector).

Shield or Scrier’s Gaze Inferno Staff, with either Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude or Loyal Protector.








Shield or Scrier’s Gaze Inferno Staff, with both Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude and Loyal Protector.

Shield or Scrier’s Gaze Inferno Staff generally cannot deal significantly high damage, even if the squad take Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude or Loyal Protector equipped.

Venting Shriek Inferno Staff, without any team protection skills.

Venting Shriek Inferno Staff, with Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude.



Venting Shriek Inferno Staff, with Loyal Protector.


Venting Shriek Inferno Staff, with both Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude and Loyal Protector.


Currently, the Inferno Staff’s devastating performance in Havoc is inseparable from two conditions: Venting Shriek and team protection skills (especially the LP Slab Shield Ogryn). The negative impact of the Inferno Staff in Havoc is also primarily tied to the Ogryn. Psykers take Venting Shriek instead of Shield for higher damage → LP Ogryns are forced to take Slab Shield to reduce ranged damage taken → Psykers deal even more damage → More Inferno Staff Psykers take Venting Shriek.
So how can this vicious cycle be resolved? Nerf the Inferno Staff and limit its Cleave? Then why should the Inferno Staff in Auric difficulty and below be punished for its performance in Havoc? Darktide currently only has the base game mode and 3 additional modes. Adjusting the game based solely on a potential abnormal performance in an additional modes—anyone who thinks that way might have an Ogryn brain.
Balancing the Inferno Staff’s performance in Havoc without affecting Auric difficulty can also be achieved in two ways. First, limit the use of Venting Shriek.

Empathic Evasion is the core talent that allows Inferno Staff Psykers to take Venting Shriek without worrying about Gunner threats. Increasing its cooldown and reducing skill uptime would force many Psykers to switch to the Shield. Incidentally, there is a bug with Empathic Evasion where, once dot stacks have been applied to an enemy, attacking the air with a high critical hit weapon can trigger Empathic Evasion. Brain Rupture’s charge time and Peril generation rate also need to be increased to prevent Inferno Staff Psykers from relying solely on Brain Rupture to quickly deal with large numbers of ranged Specials. Second, introduce new Havoc modifiers, such as adding dot resistance, or adding buffs that can only be removed by being electrocuted or knocked down to encourage the use of other Force Staves. It’s worth noting that the last new Havoc modifier was added back in November of last year .

The only nerfs you propose are for talents which have very little to do with inferno staff broken damage output. Empathic Evasion? Brain Rapture? More Havoc modifiers which would screw over other unrelated and far from overpowered damage over time effects?

A decent, well build frontliner is going to be always sitting closer to 1 mil damage / 1k kills +

A decent, well build ranged psyker is going to be always sitting closer to 2 mil damage / 2k kills, and I’m not even talking about those who play aggressively.

Your post doesn’t cover the core issues at all. For the benefit of the doubt:

  • How about we talk about number of stacks Soulblaze is allowed to stack from multiple independent sources?

  • Perilous Combustion is NOW allowed to trigger Perilous Combustion?

  • The infinite cleave both on inferno staff and Shriek? The insane range and size of the attack cone on both? No damage drop off?

  • Self-applied armour penetration / brittleness being now an option for the status which was at least initially designed to be “balanced” by its low damage versus armour?

  • Mass stagger / suppression field? That weapon has literally everything

  • No real resource management like ammo, risks related to using peril are a joke these days

  • Unless frontliners play aggressively with weapons which have high one shot potential, ranged Soulblaze is always problematic

and yet people wonder why no one’s is cheering on the leeching bum from the back, stealing your kills when you dont need him at all to proceed :man_shrugging:

aint we all sharing our happy meal with the hobo and his dirty fingers grabbing rabidly at our fries, :french_fries: he didnt pay for in the first place ?

I stopped here.

When someone wants to balance the game from the Havoc perspective, the suggestions can be thrown in the dustbin
Period.

I share this feeling… but I can be wrong.
However, Fatshark have ALL metrics to see what is wrong…

I just want to have fun / difficulty in my games, certain builds remove enemy density EFFORTLESSLY. Ranged soulblaze is one class of those builds. Golden toughness (we have seen some nerfs here) and inferno bubble /shriek are the sole reason why a lot of us even manage to climb to Havoc 40. Remove those and suddenly…things look surprisingly different. Those are obvious outliers, and no cherry picked data points are going to change that.

With SB / psyker we actually have seen buffs, instead of well deserved nerfs :man_shrugging: At least with melee builds across the whole game, any OP elements are contained by limited melee range. Meanwhile range AoE goes…

At this point I can understand why people assume that lead game designers at Fatshark are just trolling players who care too much about game balance. H40 toxicity or something, I’m sure.

The locals wont like this, due to them being what they are they sadly and unwittingly adopted two competing takes on the issue:

  1. Under no circumstances should we balance the game around Havoc!!!
  2. Look what it does in Havoc, OMG NERF IT!!!

Thanks :grin:

Does the “Inferno Staff broken damage output” really exist? Most Shield Inferno Staff Psykers in Auric or even Havoc 40 can’t achieve it. Based on current observations, only Venting Shriek Inferno Staff might be able to do so in Havoc 40, and it also requires the help of teammates‘ combat skills.

I also mentioned this. At the very least, I think balance within Havoc can be achieved through new Havoc modifiers.

I don’t know man, maybe try average scoreboard data from all players who play high Havoc since the beginning of time? Auric data has no place in this discussion. Auric offers relative safety, lower HP/DR on enemies, and lower game intensity. This allows people to just run forward, away from the group. Lots of ranged splash damage options actually have to race for kills.

The psykers that play inferno in the overwhelming majority of my auric games aren’t really the strongest players. They exist but they’re rare, with the more competent players typically playing literally any other staff/build. But I’m not sure it’s the strongest staff in auric in the current state of the game. Fewer crushers and bulwarks means fewer situations where the team gets compressed by many enemies and the inferno gets to shine. Instead Shift+W Key is king which is why something like EK staff and DD is probably the strongest staff build in aurics atm.

Also pretty certain the scoreboard mod attributes all warpfire damage to the first person who applies a stack and a significant portion of these scoreboards have multiple sources of psyker with soulblaze. Not sure these provide the complete picture.

Because at least on the EU server the Auric/ML is entering its 4th month of insane aggro and increased individualism…and it works for the very reasons you mentioned!

Half pugs are clearing Auric runs in 16 minutes, runs below 20 minutes are increasingly common, how is the Inferno staff even supposed to be OP in such an environment? Or actually work that well at all?

Worse yet, it seems good chunk of this board refuses to even remotely accept that, still going forward on some outdated inertia, trying to balance a game that currently doesn’t exist!

Furthermore the confused hypocrisy doesn’t really help, in one hand trying to balance around Havoc is extremely big NO NO in these parts, but at the same time stuff needs to be nerfed around Havoc and Havoc alone…and people are wondering why the Devs don’t listen to them!

Just to answer the question in the title: Yes, yes it is, and also in Auric. All data backs this up. I see you use the Scoreboard mod, it’s not and never was accurate. Try Power DI.

But also, it does not always show its OP-ness in damage done. If you have a good team with 3 good ranged builds, most stuff will die before it reaches the Inferno staff. But when everything goes wrong and the team is surrounded, this is when the Inferno shines.

Yes.

What a perfect snapshot of raw cognitive dissonance.

Any of these scoreboards that have two psykers can be disregarded for the sake of any argument, because whoever applies the warpfire first gets the damage credit. I don’t know if Power DI tracks it more accurately, I just know this is true for this scoreboard. I can out warpfire-dps purg psykers with my trauma build simply because I sprinkle warpfire on everything before it even gets in their range and see like 1200k total damage with about 60% of it as warpfire, while their total damage is around 400k(edit: auric maelstrom)

What is the basis for this conclusion? I’ve tried to replicate your test using the following build. Scrier’s Gaze is only used to maintain 100% Peril. At 31 stacks of Soulblaze, it deals at most 300 damage per second to a Crusher in Havoc 40. Even when combined with the Inferno Staff direct damage, it falls far short of killing a Crusher with 9750 HP within 5 seconds.



Most Auric scoreboards only have one Psyker, and Havoc scoreboards only have one or two cases with two Psykers.

The footage of what I did and exactly what I am talking about there is literally in the first post you quoted there.

In the mixed horde test, it does not kill the Crusher, or any of the elites for that matter, in 5 seconds, but it does kill all of the poxwalkers, and there is no meaningful time differential between that and 100 poxwalkers.

The point being that Inferno Staff can delete any arbitrary number of poxwalkers in under 5 seconds. It does not matter how many there are, nor how many high mass enemies (y’know, the kind specifically meant to hinder your ability to delete everything in that general direction). Inferno Staff just does it anyway, and that’s what makes it stupidly broken and incredibly unpleasant to play alongside.

This might be the only highlight of the Inferno Staff in Auric. Should it really be adjusted because of its performance in Havoc?

I will say kudos to OP for putting in significant effort to collect data, and I’m a bit disappointed with how few critics have made any attempt to engage with said data.

That says, I’m not sure your point of “it’s fine beneath Havoc” really matters when the number one suggestion to limit Purg is giving it a cleave limit. This is likely to only be a real DPS loss for it in Havoc with its increased spawns and enemy mass, and maybe the spikiest of Auric Mael density.

I do wish everyone would stop talking about Purg in a vacuum of its supporting talents (this is not aimed at OP to be clear). Perilous Combustion is at least as big of a problem as Purg itself yet that keeps getting left out of the discussion by most, it’s actually perplexing to observe what a goldfish memory many seem to have in addressing that issue.