X12 is the most ammo effective weapon of all time, but the Lucius patterns run into ammo problems without the extra bit of refresh from the extra pool.
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Yeah, kinda. I personally don’t like it, mainly because it goes against their philosophy outlined in the Deep Dive regarding weapon-specific talents.
I’m more or less with @Tzcheese on this one. It does break the ammo balance of las weapons, and make K12, Helbore and Recon top picks/builds, but only for the Vet. It’s still below other classes power-wise (and I’m not talking about the obviously broken stuff).
On K12 it’s absolutely not necessary. Helbore can eat up a lot of ammo without Surgical + Shock Trooper (some variants more than others MK III is very hungry).
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I don’t mind ammo being scarce if kill per ammo is balance nicely.
I only use my gun when situation is called for(dangerous elite/special, shooter horde, monstrosity) and weapon like Lasgun, ReconLas, Headhunter, Stubber seem to fare pretty well in most case.
But when a range weapon always running red on ammo even when used only in applicable situation there’s seriously something wrong with it ie Plasma, Shotguns, Kickback.
They either have to make these weapon powerful enough to worth the ammo being spend(see Rumbler) or just make its ammo pool bigger.
Seriously, if I only get handful of shell from ammo pick up using Shotgun, these shell should blast most enemy to oblivion on point blank. Instead it just ragdoll them around and make me question why I didn’t just one shot it with melee instead.
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Recon it’s basically mandatory, Helbore benefits a lot as well with the right build. XII is kind of an odd case amongst lasguns in that it has a decent base ammo economy even without any special builds and it isn’t really the kind of weapon you can have out all the time, so the boosted ammo economy doesn’t help as much as it does with the others even if you’re a ranged enthusiast.
Ultimately it very much depends on your playstyle. If you don’t mind only pulling our your ranged weapon for special occasions, a weak ammo economy isn’t a big deal and you’re probably going to be fine with many non-lasgun options as things are. If you prefer ranged play over melee and don’t want to use a lasgun, it’s another story entirely.
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If you’ve seen a… certain breed of Rumbler Ogryn then you might question that method of balancing too…
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Oh? What is that? I used Rumbler on Ogryn myself but it’s more of a melee build rather than going full Rumbler main.
There is a certain type of Rumbler Ogryn that spams it the whole map, racing to hoover up every ammo pickup in sight. This would mostly just be funny if the game punished them for this behaviour.
The issue is… it’s genuinely a very effective tactic. Bosses melt and anything smaller than that is stagger locked to oblivion. It’s obviously not a very fun way to play the game for 3/4 members of the party though.
The Rumbler also does about the same damage as grenade-upgraded kraks to bosses with adhesive, totally demolishing that with blaze away. Was really weird to see that damage buff. It was already performing way hard even without veterans, and when veterans were in the lobby blew away from the rest of the team in damage. Definite what were they thinking.
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Damn, I didn’t realize it’s that powerful since I used it sparingly lol
Although I did remember stunlocking monstrosity with it…
Since when was ranged combat in VT2 uninteresting? It was a pivotal part of the game although not nearly as well implemented as here. The ammo scarcity made it more interesting, not less.
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I guess I just worry a talent like Shock Trooper maybe does too much to push players into a build or too mandatory. I can’t see myself going without it if I wanted to run something like laspistol
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It’s also unbelievably inaccurate. Most of the ranged classes can spam their ranged weapon with a modicum of skill to this day. God, try to get your average Waystalker to ever put away their bow, cause their ammo pool definitely won’t stop them.
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To be fair the only thing that comes close to in enjoyment on Waystalker to nailing headshot after headshot with Longbow is the crunching sound of the Glaive getting a crit on headshot against a Chaos Warrior.
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Average Psyker gameplay:
Average Big boi Ogryn gameplay:
Most Decorated Sharpshooter vs Scab Ranged:
Sharpshooter using priority target vs Crusher:
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Tom Hank’s mistake was not grabbing rending talents
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Use weapons that have large depositories of ammo if you enjoy spraying the heretics a lot. The game’s multitudes of Lasgun variants in particular are always good choices, as most of them are great at both horde-clearing AND sniping. They usually have VERY large pools of ammo and the Shock Troop ability gives you free Las ammo for critical ranged hits.
Accurate.
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Always gonna be a problem cause of universal ammo type, who’s got the best gun in a run will suck all ammo, previously it was bolter vet, now it’s ogryn. Imo it should be something like
- regular (bullets, las batteries, shotgun shells) - spawns more often since 3 classes can grab
- heavy (bolter, flamer, plasma) - rare (but scales with numbers of players using heavy guns)
- ogryn special - rare, cause deals tones of damage
- crates should stay universal
Or maybe some ogryn weapon should have regular type of ammo - ripper, stubber, knockback. But rumbler and GG - heavy.
Don’t even need to change models, clips - could be for regular, red bags for heavy, just need one more model for ogryn weapons and rescaled ammo spawn system.
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yeah 3 ogres drop 2000 rounds down range, land one hit. kill nothing
while the vet blows up a tank with a pistol!
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Shock trooper and always prepared should not be in the same bottom brach…
Always prepared is clearly something that suits well marksman branch. But shock trooper should be in an other branch (i would put it in the “for the emperor” branch). Also, it should not be limited to only lasguns.
Here, the current ammo limitation would be perfectly fine.