it really is so much fun but I played a round with it last night, had a couple psykers in my team so it wasn’t an issue during the run but on the scoreboard at the end I had picked up 2.5k ammo…yeah I was shooting just a little too much but damn it is fun!
- WHC: I played a lot of WHC, I would call it a hybrid in this regard.
- HM: Kerrilien keeps the anti-special playstyle in all of her classes, but Waystalker is definitely the best of it against specials.
- Rep Handgun: Haven’t seen it played at all, maybe a few times (1.3K+ hour)
- Zealot: was either not used or 150% broken OP when I played, and it was for a very, very, very long time.
I’m not saying there isn’t nuance in this. Classes aren’t specialized in only one role, and depending on weapon setup a lot has changed, but whenever I played Waystalker, HM, and Bountyhunter (which was crap most of the time) were the main special removers.
I had a totally different experience for 90% of my duration playing VT2. Marksman’s classes were way better than anything else in special removal.
Kinda feel like I’m in crazy land after all these comments. Both based on weapon selection and Classes have outlined specializations, some of course are more generalist while others are more specialized.
Specials are a bit more nuanced since different things are good against different specials, but the fact is that there IS specialization.
I also think that some specialization is very good for not just game balance, but team play as a whole.
Not wanna sound lika an AH saying skilliusse, but skilliusse. I got to agree that for sure rumbler is easier to use against them.
I didn’t say it can’t. I didn’t say it should kill at all.
There’s very little left for Veteran to be. The veteran that was designed with a damned ability to highlight all specials, if he isn’t matching the other classes in that what is the class left with?
There is a whole lot of difference between “We designed this class to be the best at killing specials” and “This is the only class that can kill specials”.
Again, not like I can get more special kills out of Zealot or Psyker easily, but that’s clearly against the intent.
I’m not against the notion that maybe leave Psyker as the “anti-special” specialist and make Vet something different, but cutting out specialization from the game as a whole is a terrible idea IMO.
The GG is terrible now despite those buffs. It had a decent use case before neutralizing elites quickly while also dispatching specials, but now Batter exists to massacre elites with no ammo consumption on any loadout. GG is by far the worst pick for the Gunlugger side. It really should have gotten some splash damage + reserves, and that stupid fuse that makes it blow up mid air taken right out of the game.
Bigger issue on the ammo front is vet’s increased ammo capacity is super late for ??? reason.
I did not know this. How did I miss that?
Because the tutorial ends way short of actually important info about the game.
The only specialists without extra melee susceptibility (3X damage to be precise) are Trapper and Sniper. With the mutie’s 200 HP nerf from last update and these new melee trees there are a ridiculous number of loadouts that can lop him mid charge in one hit.
This is literally an exclusive mechanic for Darktide so why they didn’t bother mentioning it is anyone’s guess. Could easily have Sefoni add that in. ‘Heretics that hunt you are weaker to melee attacks. Use this to save ammo’.
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I mean they definitely have an edge, just the weapons that were good at special killing were generally good at it with just some power properties to reach BPs, probably also just the nature of QP to an extent, also probably me putting more weight in “majority” than you meant. No question a good WS could get a good amount more special kills than melee team mates, I just usually felt like they were significantly outplaying their team mates as well if they ended up with a LOT more special kills than others.
Also ranged weapons fill a wider range of roles with more nuance in Darktide, so I definitely don’t think the two games are super comparable in that regard.
I mean they highlight elites as well (the removal of Ogryn highlight was definitely a HUGE misstep). I’d probably say their main role is less to do with specific target type, as that will depend a lot on gun of choice, and more to do with general ranged DPS and sustain, two things I’d also agree they’ve become a bit too anemic at depending on your gun.
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Ugh yes, not sure what the reasoning here was, there are tons (ha) of Reapers that need shooting but if you do your Exec Stance may likely expire.
It almost seems that the buffing on mob HP was a last-minute thing after seeing the power creep kick in, and an inadvertent overall nerf (dmg->ammo) of certain weapons vs buffed HP was missed or ignored.
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The reasoning was probably because they forgot it was tied to its own talent.
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I usually try to keep a couple of trash shooters around to refresh the timer while I grind through a reaper’s health.
Yeah ditto, it’s not a foolproof method but it helps.
It works better when the melee classes are in full melee mode though.
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In my memory, if you were playing WS and didn’t do 50% of the specials yourself you weren’t really pulling your weight. Other Ranged specializations (and other Kerillien classes) were a bit worse at it, but they had other stuff going for them while having a general edge in special removal.
I feel like there is a lot more nuance here with weapon choice, but the “general idea” still remains. Lasgun for specials + shooters, braced for specials + shooter while going Rambo, Plasma for specials + Elites with various other ups and downs.
On the other hand pre-patch 13 you could easily run K12 on a Zealot and be a good ranged gunner/shooter remover as long as you had a good aim and TH and Box/Rock were always extremely good at removing mutants.
Yeah, but currently you are gated by ammo unless you run las-builds, engaging in a melee is easier than ever, you are forced into melee a lot more (mostly due to teamplay getting bad because of the general power level) and ranged damage is lower than melee damage (on melee classes). At least if we are talking about Vet.
I’m just failing to see the Vision behind Vet currently. What it is supposed to be if not an Anti-special specialist or glass-canon damage dealer or anti-shooter specialist or …?
Failing to see because vet literally unfinished, his keystone feats missing…
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I feel like Zealot, Psyker, and Gunlugger are more coherent as a class even without keystones.
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Nah spyker has the most op keystones… Ogryn stackable toughness keystones finally making the ogryn feel like a true tank ( i dont tried the other 2 yet) for the zealot its my least favorite class not eve reached keystones yet … But the veteran definitely missing it, currently the crit las is the only vialable build to get ? Whit the mandatory bottom middle branches when every toughness regent on kill located…
I’m not really talking about just power, more than what the vision of the class is. Apart from Disrupt Destiny being an incredibly fun gameplay experience (with the random highlights), they are buffs.
For Zealot for example you got: 25% crit chance (with a light condition), +AS, and damage on movement. These 2 could easily be replaced by a flat node(s) or something. Martyrdom is the only special thing there.
The class’s playstyle without the keystone(s) is still absolutely coherent.
Honestly I could rant for ages about longbow, elf melee weapons, how roles might shift between Cata and modded, and so on but to avoid further derailing I’m just going to end off the VT2 discussion here.
TBC I was talking about hypothetical Vet role, not his current iteration.
Ideally I’d like to see Vet as the “gun guy” but in more varied ways than just pure ranged DPS (though obviously he should have more of that too). I know you’re not a fan of the rending stuff but I think the idea on paper is good. Letting Vet take a gun and expand its effective target pool, and there are other cool ways they could augment his gun play. Spread reduction, reduced range drop-off, heck maybe even being able to put better sights on guns, ranged uptime increases through reload speed (already present, but please give Ult reload back), increased mag sizes, higher ammo pool (technically present but awkward, too hard to reach, and arguably not enough), and ammo regen (again present, probably good enough with higher reserve ammo pools). There are many many possibilities here that would be fun and effective.
I’d like to see him be able to use guns in ways Zealot and Psyker can’t, with higher ranged DPS and higher ranged uptime, with different bonuses and flavours that synergise with different guns and playstyles. I don’t think any of that requires pushing him into prioritising certain targets necessarily.
And again to clarify this is the “identity” I’d enjoy for Vet, not what he currently has, which is a mish mash of weak point, crit, rending, melee and support. Make sense?
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I played just played Cata and sometimes Deeds so my perspective might be different because of that, so dropping it is probably a good idea.
You gotta give something to him. Every class/playstyle mix has a situation to shine in, usually even multiple.
With how Auric currently just floods you with enemies and how easy it is to deal with shooters in melee being good at range isn’t really something that is actually worthwhile when now everyone just hard-engages.
I’m not a fan of rending it worsens the issue of armored enemies requiring no specialized equipment/melee to deal with. Even Vet’s Krak grenades are negatively impacted by it. I feel like it mushes everything together, making things “samey” in a way. It throws armor-type balance out the window (including against maniacs).
That said I agree with your general ideas of making Vet a bit more about using ranged weapons in unique/interesting ways. I guess the current problems are enlarged very much due to the state of Plasma/Bolter currently.
On a side note, some of the non-damage ranged Nodes on Zealot would be great on hybrid/close-range veterans (dance of death, emperors bullet), that and the “pull out cancel” on the throwing knives. Probably veterans should have nodes reducing swap times in general.