We have lives and jobs just like you do. 30 hours of gameplay just to level a single character to level 30 is not realistic for the average gamer and will hurt this games success in the long run by alienating casual gamers.
Most players will never only play a single class, asking them to play for approximately 60 hours just to unlock the talent tree for two characters is unrealistic and very much not “pro-fun”.
The current XP gain rates should be increased considerably, such that a person can level a character to 30 in a reasonable amount of time playing on a common difficulty.
Furthermore, players should be rewarded and incentivised to learn and play multiple classes, the current rate of progression actively discourages this and will in turn hurt the community as a result. I suggest adding a curio which is unlocked at level 30 that is shared among all characters. This curio should have a significant XP bonus which decreases the time investment required for your second, third, or fourth max level character.
I have approximately 400+ hours in your tide games, I’m a super fan at this point, but even I am feeling the pain of the current system, it needs improved, or the long-term health of this gaming community will suffer.
Starting from level 8 you unlock your first Curio and there’s plenty with experience bonuses which helps out alot, it’s a bit weird that difficulty 1 and 2 is basically the same xp reward but you do level very fast doing diff 3 and 4 so doesn’t take THAT long to max level, especially if you do secondary objectives and special conditions (even Fewer Horde modifier gives bonus xp while also making the map easier)
I do like the idea of allowing alt characters, or a second character etc gaining more xp basically speeding up the repetetive process of leveling again, I do however feel the leveling of your first character is completely fine as people should NOT go up in higher difficulties before they’re actually ready for it in terms of gameplay experience, making leveling too quick or quicker than it is right now might very well damage that and the game in itself as there will be ALOT of newer players in higher difficulties and essentially ruin it for the rest that plays that normally.
In general tho it could use a bump up but I do think the solution may be in what you’re suggesting with more xp for secondary characters.
What is stopping you from having fun on less than max level character?
Well you unlock certain game mechanics and weapons with levels. Psyker for example has a really bad start. I have distrubuted my playing time over all characters - 12 hours in total. None of them are lvl 11 and i can’t test/do the weekly missions for example.
speaking as someone who played 500h on Vtide then made a new account (spliting familly steam account) and started again from the bottom, the best fun in a Tide game is once you have access to all the toys and hunt for good version of them. Not when you are grinding for ten hour to get one talent or weapon you need for the core concept of your build.
Make player able to play with all their weapon and exploit faster and they wont get bored before. Plus, in a few month and speaking from experience this grind will actively prevent new people from joining in. They might like to play with their friend but they will have to either play alone for a few dozens of hours or be a dead weight preventing the friends from playing anything but the first two difficulty until they pl him enougth to start enjoying the game.
This phase has cost our player group around half of those who joined late in the Vtide fun.
There are no veterans here in Darktide at this time, and games shouldn’t be tailored for veterans grinding new accounts.
Introducing players gradually into the game and its mechanics is a standard in gaming since the first Mario (or before), and if someone drops on the way maybe just didn’t like the game after all.
Also, exploration is an effective motivator to continue playing, and there’s much more…
Why do I bother answering in this topic? It’s nonsense.
How in the world could you take a stance that is pro-grind ?
People want to play with builds, use different weapons, and take on all the game has to offer. Those things are severely limited during the leveling process. Grinds are discouraging and damage the community by segregating everyone due to level disparity, and burning players out. It also is discouraging playing multiple classes, which in turn reduces learning multiple classes and becoming a better player and team mate.
Judging by your rhetoric you don’t represent the average player. No normal person in their right mind would actually ask for a 120 hour grind to level 4 characters, or 60 hours for two.
Me? Yeah I’m gonna have hundreds of hours into this game, I will have a max level character of each class, but I’m crazy for VT and DT, I’m a fan boy. We have to think about the health of the community as a whole, not just 1-5% of us.
Agreed. Also, the lack of rewards after a mission, like new gear, really kills any incentive to keep going. Its so RARE for you to get any gear after a mission, plus the long wait for the shop to refresh, discourage any player to test new gear and combos.
If you think that leveling in Tide games is just a “grind”, then we don’t have a common language or fundamentals and there’s no point in discussing further.
I’m sure there are elements in which we agree, please don’t take it personally.
I’m having fun now, I was having fun in VT2, I love playing games, I hate anti-consumer practices and I don’t perceive current Darktide leveling curve as a problem.
I have a simple question, would you mind if the progression of leveling and at least having a decent variant of each weapon would be faster? Or is your point merely - i dont bother the time so you shouldn’t?
Also in addition
No one is disagreeing with this, we are only talking about the pace. Do you think this would actively hurt the game or your gaming experience?
The process of leveling isn’t just a mindnumbing grind, but also an opportunity for players to better acclimate themselves to the climbing difficulty as they make attempts at new difficulties and various conditions some missions may have. If someone wants to get more experience, they can churn out several low tier difficulties, or risk trying something a bit harder. Upon unlocking curios, if they’re lucky they can get experience curios to further boost their leveling.
Now I don’t want to strawman your argument, but I don’t think players should start off with all their talents and every weapon option immediately, just because you think that’s the only point to the game, is by testing out builds. While I agree, that’s most definitely an end-game experience, but there’s also a new-game experience, where you get the gratification of finally unlocking that talent tree you’ve been eyeballing, or finally getting that staff or shield you seen a high level psyker or ogryn use.
If you just introduce all of these traits and weapons right off the bat in the span of a few hours, then it completely removes that feeling of accomplishment.
The only actual thing I find discouraging is the fact that FS decided to not have currencies and trinkets be cross-character, and I hope that is something that is changed.
certain items being tied to level ranges. Like, I could go make a zealot and have fun with an evicerator after 20 levels, or I could just play my 30 vet and nooooot do that
Why does everyone see the progression as a ‘grind?’ I get that you don’t have full builds, but if you view levelling up by just playing the game as a ‘grind,’ maybe you need to take a step back and look at your mentality with games like this.
Because some people wants to play endgame content after reaching endgame. It’s that simple.
There is no good reason to need to “level up” in a cooperative horde shooter. It is a dopamine drip mechanism that produces ‘engagement’ by letting players see a number get bigger to keep them playing the game for longer.
Darktide has a fun, varied combat combat system that plays out wildly differently depending on the environment, the enemies you are fighting, the class and weapons you are using, and your own personal skill. I earn a sense of achievement by becoming more proficient with my chosen class or loadout, or by fighting my way out of a tough situation in a map, or by becoming more comfortable in a higher difficulty.
I do not feel achievement when I collect enough EXP to be allowed to purchase the flamer in the shop.
Hello. I will be responding to the OP and to some of the comments. Due to me being all over the place, I will be unable to keep track of who is who
Yes there are Curios for more experience gain. I was very lucky on the merchant RNG with my Zealot. I had 3, 4% Curious to get me to level 30. It went by fast. You have to check the merchant each time you log in, and each time you complete a merchant
That said… I don’t like the idea of how quick you level being dependant on RNG. That is a terrible design in my book
I can understand the game being agnozing to level. As it stands, the weapons are like the Curios in which you have to hope for good RNG. My Zealot didn’t see their first Bolter until level 23. My Veteran found theirs at level 16
I responded to 2 other posts with this but I will go ahead and put it here. It would make it easier to read, and I want people to put pressure on the Devs. They need to bring back the Vermintide 2 crafting and inventory system
In Vermintide 2, I would use my highest level character to farm dust. From there, I would use the dust to craft max level gear that fit my play style. I noticed it encouraged other people to try new classes and sometimes level them. If the inventory system continues to be isolated to 1 character, then it will discourage leveling I think
Hi. Vermintide 1 and 2 casual to the max player here. I think a lot of the core ideas about casual players in this thread are severely misunderstood. For one thing, there are so many types of casual players out there, alongside how their individual personalities affect their enjoyment of games. Some people like Peggle, or Stardew Valley, or casual League of Legends. I may have a job and a life but I’m still willing to sink 30 hours into a character, 2 hours a day.
Personally I like the experience of something new. I’m a fan of playing through the first 20 levels of a character on WoW only to drop it for another class that looks cooler, only to drop that for ANOTHER class and so on. But what about the first 5 hours of Subnautica? Or the first day or so of a Minecraft server. Once things get complicated, I move on because I value my time and I don’t have the ability to sit and hyper-focus on something in order to become one of the top 5% or whatever. You’ll never see me making a fully automated farm in Stardew Valley, but I’ve played that first season more times than I can count (not really it’s like 3 times).
What I loved about Vermintide (2, I mostly played 2), was the ability for me to have that experience for the first ten levels or so, realize I didn’t like a class or how it handled, and drop it for my bald baby Saltzpyre. But what allowed me to realize that was the timesink that VT2 had in place.
Progression can use a bit of tweaking, and weapon drops can be increased a bit post missions, but it’s in no means an awful state. I would hate for this game to go the WoW-route and just offer the ability to auto-unlock every talent and weapon at the drop of the hat. For someone like me that means I’ll get bored faster. Too much choice and not enough knowledge is not something I like. I enjoy taking a bit of time to learn the game and if I find value in it, cool, if not, back to my bald baby
Saltzpyre Imperial Guardsmen no. 47189457534
For many people the enjoyment in Tide games is playing against large hordes with varied specials and elites with the full extent of your equipment and abilities unlocked. Starting from scratch with weapons that are a fraction as strong as a levelled character’s and playing lower difficulty missions to grind up gear, EXP, and contracts is not fun for people who value that experience. All the OP is saying is that that experience could stand to be reduced from what it is now. I personally think that the old Vermintide system of being able to put levelled gear on an unlevelled class was perfectly adequate.
Your condescending tone and failure to understand why people would rather not play “baby’s first Tide mission” for any longer than necessary speaks volumes. Maybe that’s the real reason you shouldn’t bother answering?
The problem with taking longer is that it’s not nearly as fun in the beginning
Not everyone knows what to expect or looks forward so much to it that they will all continue. While good gameplay would be interesting