The Progression (level, getting weapons, weeklies) is way too grindy and needs a change

The shop resetting only once an hour, having no way to manually reset it, having a very small selection for how many weapons there are and on top of that high prices is just bad.
You can maybe afford one weapon per two missions. Lets compare that to Vermintide 2, you would get 2 chests for that and even a commandiation chest. So a whole 9 items (each potential a new weapon) for 2 games.
In Darktide, you get exactly 1 weapon, relics you can multiple of but if you buy one you might not be able to buy a gun.
You can also randomly get a weapon drop after the mission, but they are so rare that in a combined (closed beta and pre-order beta) of about 30 hours I got like 7.

This is just absolutely horrendous. It takes you 40 minutes at least to get one weapon, its simply not great.
It kills ANY kind of experimentation, which for a game where you repeat missions over and over but tackle them with new builds is a death sentence. You just go with the gun and melee that is the most effective to save up money and the grind.
What it also causes is way faster burnout, since you do (nearly) the same exact thing over and over you gonna get tired of it eventually. Since you cant experiment easily, youre stuck with it and just drop the game.
Whats even worse is that apparently, the maximum power is well over 60 hours of grinding. I’ve heard that weapons can go above 500 rating and I am only at around 250, I invested nearly 20 hours into the preorder-beta. So what I am getting at is that I have to play the “hoard money for good guns” style that long?
A game has to be good now and not 100 hours into the game. The grind is way, too, much.

And dont get me started on weekly contracts, they are just as grindy.

500 kills in melee and ranged are seperate contracts? and you can get weird things like killing gunmen in melee or as ogryn with ranged(who lacks a ranged that can achieve that many kills in a reasonable time)?
And thats only the “easy” tier, how about 1000? And what about the 15 or 25 mission wins? Or the get 5/12 grims or scripts? or finish 6 secondary objectives on a specific mission (which is totally RNG)?
At least you can reroll contracts, for gold… which is already limited as is. And it goes up from 0 to 2500 to 5000 to 7500. thats a lot of gold for a reroll.

Now remember that the currency isnt shared, now remember that you need to do that weekly on 4 classes if you want each of their shiny powerful weapons or new skins that arent part of the achievements.
Its, too much.

I can see that in the late game, once youre comfortable on difficulty 5 and earning 13k a mission this will likely not matter anymore to you because you have an abundance of resources. But thats the point, late game. But reaching late game requires me to go through a grindfest that feels not rewarding at all. And that 4 times btw. if I want to play anything but a single class.
And what stops me from just, not playing Darktide? Why shouldnt I just play Vermintide 2 instead or any other game for that matter? Why is it required to grind this much?

There is a reason why its hard to get anyone into V2, because early game its just a grind and its not enjoyable to play (its too easy). But at least the grind isnt too long and there is lots of different weapons you can choose to experiement and keep the fun going.
Weekly and daily quests were also easy to do and at times even could be done in just 3 matches (about maybe 4 hours).
Yet in Darktide it feels like I am being punished for wanting to play how I want to play.

So, after I put out the points why the progression is bad and compared it a bit to Vermintide 2.

How do we fix it?

Either missions need to be more rewarding as in more gold, or prices have to go down. I am for prices have to go down.
Cut them by 80%. Im not crazy, this way you can buy about 2-4 weapons per mission, later the prices of weapons skyrocket anyways, I see guns be at the price of 11k, and its only blue weapons. So just paying roughly 3k allows for more variation and experimentation way earlier.

Give us every available weapon to buy on a different shop-tab

They will be more expensive than the randomly put out ones, but that way you can buy the weapon you want than wait half a day for the RNG gods to bless you with a specific weapon.
This also makes progression more clear, it can give you a goal to work towards. For example you want the machine gun on ogryn and you see “aha! I can get it at level 20!” and then you work on that.
The set weapons will basically instantly restock and have new stats and so on on them.
Depending on level, you unlock different quality shops (level 5 = green, 15 = blue, 20 = purple, 30 = orange). So there will be a tab for grey, green and so on weapons of every gun+melee option. The price for them can be a little less than what the current goldprice is (about 25% less for green and blue and 50% less for purple and orange).
That way you can get a specific gun but its gonna cost more.

Gold, contract-currency, items and whatever else is added in the future, needs to be shared
cross characters.

There is no way around it. Vermintide 2 is easy to regrind because you can craft weapons or open chests to get to a high power, charms, trinkets and necklaces are shared so those you dont have to regrind. The only thing stopping you is the levels. You can hop straight into champion once you got your power 300 gear and have fun. In Darktide you cant do that. So with shared items and currencies, we will make that happen so making a new class wont be too difficult.
(I acknowledge of the fact that you can remake characters over and over to grind the weekly challenges that way. Just let the players that want to do that do that.)

Coming to contract currency

The shop prices have to be reduced by a bit, as right now all you can buy with completing all of them is… two blue weapons. and barely a orange one or a skin. You end up with about 2000-ish currency. Which, when the price is around 1600-2000. is just too much.
Since currencies are shared I wont make this too huge of a reduction, a neat 10-15% in reduction would be nice so you can buy one big weapon or nice skin on one of your characters and have some extra for next time and that adds up.

Now to contracts themselfs

Reduce the grind and let us choose our contracts from a big list, it could similar to Vermintide 2 weeklies but you choose 5 out of 9 randomly selected, and you can choose the difficulty of the contracts.
That way you wont have to spend a mass amount of gold on the contracts.

Since you will likely (if you enjoy the game) play multiple classes, lets make it more rewarding to do it so you go do it by reducing the grindy quests. Keep in mind that you likely do them over 4 classes.

To the grindy contracts themself

  • the kill ones (like kill X amount of dreg, regenades), make it require no specific way to kill, so no “only with ranged/melee” and make it teamwide. AKA if anyone kills a dreg I get progression as well, this is a coop game right? why are the contracts telling me to go solo and steal all the kills then? Makes sense to make the contract be a coop thing.

  • Monsters, since apparently the boss on the assassination map counts as a monster, are fine. As long as that boss keeps counting for it.

  • Solve side objectives on X map, reduce the amount by half. Or straight up remove them until some more varied sideobjectives are added (that are also not as agonizing as the book collecting). Right now it is just agony finding all the scripts and grims in a map when the spawn locations are random each time. In Vermintide 2 they were always in the same 5 spots so it was easy to remember, now you have what seems like 10 locations per map for scripts and 5 locations per map for grims. And with what seems to be 13 maps total at release (or more?). thats way too many locations for anyone to remember.

  • Collect (grim/scripture), reduce it by half. finding 12 grims or scripts takes a really long time. Its not as easy as in Vermintide 2 (like said above) so having to find 12 just like in vermintide 2 is a huge time investment. At best you get 2 scripts and 1 grim, so it takes a very long time to complete the base one. Therefore reducing it by half is my solution.

  • Win Missions, reduce it by half. 25 missions is a chore to go through (its the medium level value). At the most lucky this is an time investment (20 minutes on average per mission) of 500 minutes, thats 8 hours and 20 minutes. Thats about an entire day of gaming for me (I have about 8 hours to play games). Half is a more reasonable time investment.

  • There probably are more contract varieties, but in general, reduce the grindiness of them.

And one thing for the class progression, double the current exp you get.

There is nothing beyond level 30 so make it less grindy to get there. When classes rely so heavily on their talents at times to be effective (ogryn with level 5 talent due to his bad ranged for gunfights) its just “I grind to finally have fun”. Grinding to get to the fun part is never good, as it creates burnout real fast. And this way we get to the fun bit faster.
Psyker is a great example, he is not great early or mid game but with all his talents he is really fun (from what I heard). So if it takes like 30 hours to get to level 30, why should you be locked to such a massive timegate to have fun with the class?
Since fixing the career tree and overall balance of the class is way more difficult, just doubling the exp gain is a bandaid fix so you get to the fun bit faster.

This way the game will be way less grindy and people will have more fun with the game because it wont take hours upon hours to get weapons or level up.

I know you guys made it this grindy to make the player stay longer in the game, thats what all games recently do with battle passes and grindy bs. But let me tell you Fatshark, making a game this grindy will push a lot of people away and reduce the player count faster than you think. I’ve seen some Vermintide 2 veterans say “If the grind keeps going like this I may quit Darktide”, and its been what, 4 days? Someone who played modded difficulties and plays like absurdly hard stuff, is already really tired of the grind DT has. If such a die-hard fan gets pushed away this game this quickly, it has no good future if it stays how it is.

People will continue to be pushed away from it and DT will eventually die faster than V2, V2 had a small playerbase (2-4k on average) over the years from what we can see in steam charts. Every now and then you get spikes with content drops.

We all havent seen how the cosmetic shop is and people wont have kind words for you guys if its abusively priced, trust me. A lot of people saw DT negative the day they saw premium currency, and I myself hope it wont be bad. But at how grindy DT is, I dont have hopes for that anymore, as all the other games that do that are a bs grindfest.

Fatshark, if you want to make money from cosmetics, make the game more enjoyable and inviting to be played than being a grindfest.

People willingly hand over money if they enjoy a game, I know that because I bought all but the latest two cosmetic packs. Solely because V2 was such a joy to me. I thought on buying the 2nd latest one, but since I wasnt enjoying V2 anymore at that point it was pointless to put money in. After a massive content drought and how DT is, I dont think I want to buy them anymore, even when they look nice to me.
Make a fun, enjoyable game, not a grindfest time sink.

As a finishing note.

Thank you for reading through my wall of text, well I hope you did. (I spent about 2 hours writing this out, so excuse me if I made errors along the way).
I am really passionate about Darktide since I am a massive V2 fan, I love DT’s combat (despite it lagging on my pc, its on me to a degree).
I love how many weapons and talent there are, the different missions, the difficulty, the amount of thinking to get around and use cover and whatnot. Darktide is an really fun game to me, yet, the grind is off putting. I wanna play all 4 classes to keep having fun and variety, but the game actively discourages me from trying new things. It wants me to play in one specific way and its, well it is fun for now but I doubt I gonna say the same thing once I got to hour 50. The only way I put 1600 hours into Vermintide 2 was because there were so many builds, from straight up funny-meme to busted beyond comprehension. In Darktide, it doesnt feel like that at all. It feels like it wants me to spend time in the game but doesnt care if I have fun or not. V2 feels more like it cares that I have fun cuz it isnt that grindy and there is plenty of easy-to-access variety.

Anyways that was really it, wish you all a good day.
Edit: Fixed an error and thanks to the error I found out that you can make big text so I made the text as a whole a bit more readable with that. I’m not a common poster on FS-forums (usually report bugs on steam) so didnt know about it.


true, the crazy slow progression and weak early game weapons with no cleave makes early game a slog and dissuaded my friends from not refunding the game


What an absolute monolith of a post.
But it summarizes pretty much all the gripes I’ve mentioned about this game to friends, on Discord and on various message boards. Most of it applied to Vermintide 2 as well, but with Darktide it’s even more apparent.

I made a post about how difficulty levels are scaled around gear power and how it negatively affects progression and general play. I think that’s another big part of why the grind can be so frustrating, especially when you start over.


Agreed, they’re probably thinking they can lure players on with carrot but new players and less committed players need to find things fun first


I absolutely do not see non-VT players sticking with this game very long. When getting to the weapons that are fun and powerful takes between 20 and 30 hours (let alone another 10 to 20 to max your character), people are going to drop this game in droves. Most of the early game is just suffering.


I hate seeing pointless progression systems in any game.
VT2’s progression system is a gigantic waste of time; and its even worse when some careers require their higher level talents to be good at anything at higher difficulties. DT2 is the same way, with classes lacking the most important perks until they get to 25 or 30.
Item power is also a, to put it bluntly, complete f*cking dogshit system that has no reason to exist other than to waste people’s time. I have never in my life seen an item power system be enjoyable. It has exclusively been negative to any game I have played, and DT is no exception to this rule.

A little bit of progression I can understand; as players can easily need a dozen hours to properly learn the game. But the insane grind that’s already been presented like “clear 25 missions in a week for some tokens that barely cover a quarter of an items price!” followed by “by the way I hope you like checking the store every day for an item that’s actually worth the money” and “also I hope you like doing this for every character because god forbid you don’t invest at least a hundred hours in each” has been a massive demotivator for me. I want to play a game. Not be indentured to it.

The worst part is that DT doesn’t do much novel. VT2 was a very melee centric game, and that’s what made it a unique game. But DT is just another FPS. Yes it has VT2’s melee combat, but the sheer amount of ranged enemies, especially on higher difficulties, make it only a minor feature.
I’m contemplating going for a refund and not playing Darktide simply because there are better FPS games to play. FPS games that start out the player with weapons that are actually fun to use, and don’t ask the player to invest a month worth of work hours to actually be able to play on high difficulty.


Big post but basically adresses all problems with the shop.

Most important thing for me is cross character currency faster shop cooldown/pay for new inventory and maybe curios being cross character. I have some XP curios that are literally useless on my lvl30 ogryn since XP doesnt do anything past 30


Agreed. Hope they are already on it, and with launch coming they will improve on this things.
What really gets me is how they can possible make this many mistakes if they already have VM2 in their curriculum. Have they learned nothing?

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I would be EXTREMELY surprised if they would get rid of the shop. Any new mechanic to generate items (forging or whatever system you want) would take to much time to implement before official launch.


I’m less concerned about the shop as it’s highly likely there will be a crafting system available at launch, which should fix a lot of the item scarcity issues.

However, everything else is on point. There is not a single good reason why EVERYTHING isn’t account-bound. Levels, currency, inventory, vendors, it all should be shared by every character you make. This isn’t an RPG, the journey is definitely not the destination. We should not have to level up four times, grind out weekly contracts four times, or manage an armory four times! It detracts from the primary purpose of the game: overcoming challenging combat puzzles with teamwork and skill.

Leveling characters was universally loathed in Vermintide, but instead of learning from that, Fatshark has doubled down and made Darktide even more of a grind. It makes me distinctly nervous about the future of this title when decisions are based on player retention metrics instead of player enjoyment.

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I agree, the levelling system as an overall percentage of time played is vestigial, feels like padding and keeps people away from a lot of fun mechanics for way too long. The dearth of information in game for what you unlock for levelling as well as any information on the power level system removes a significant amount of incentive for newer players to keep playing.

The shop as it is is just a time gate, and a RNG one at that; I don’t think, “awesome, a weapon I want!” but instead, “finally, a weapon I could have used 3 levels/8 hours ago”.

Levelling up at least 4 separate characters feels like going through the motions at best, definitely a lot of padding, and the horrible feeling of starting over again for not much benefit at worst, as well as having separate shops and contracts just feel like retention and busywork for the sake of busywork.

The itemisation is the worst though. Having completely separate inventories and currencies despite the sheer amount of shared weapons and the curio system just being stat sticks (curios even at gold rarity have no traits, only 1 main stat and 3 substats) not being shareable despite some stats being only good for levelling makes a large portion of the itemisation feel like a waste of time.

  • find a weapon we like in rotation
  • make sure it is the right variant
  • make sure its got a high possible stat roll
  • make sure the stats are good
  • make sure the stats are rolled high, since high possible rolls =/= good rolls
  • have the currency on hand to purchase while its available

Yeah, way too many layers of RNG, somehow even more than VT2

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Yes. The systems in place are just excessively arbitrary and awful. At this point my trust in FS to ever do these systems in a passable manner is subterranean. They think they need to waste our time to keep us invested and it’s just so far beyond exhausting at this point. I’m a level 9 Zealot in the beta and the grind has already sapped away a lot of my enthusiasm.

I won’t go into specific complaints, this very detailed post does a great job already.

Seems weird that Vermintide 2 veterans would complain about the level grind when its exactly the same as in Vermintide 2.

It’s not weird considering we all complained about it back then and they changed numerous things after release, not least of which was making all difficulties give the same amount of experience (something they notably forgot to include this time).

Awful disingenuous of you to try to imply there’s anything inconsistent or incoherent about these criticisms.


It is extremely weird considering that these changes happened way into the lifespan and the veterans already had every character on max. level at this point.

A veteran who spends +1k hours into the game wont really care about time consuming grind, especially not one that is fairly mild and can already be “cheesed”.

I’m not having this argument with you yet again. Numerous people have explained this to you and you’ve never had a substantial response. You are also so far in the minority on this it’s laughable. How about you just stop poking this bear and accept most other people don’t share your view here.

Posting the same borderline bait every time this issue pops up is just exhausting at this point. Just say you don’t agree it’s too slow and move on at this point. That would achieve more and derail less.

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Both the shop and the requisitorium are a huge issue right now

The reason why people played VT2 for thousands of hours is because by completing a mission you always brought something useful back home, even if just materials

Here the only thing you achieve is wasting some time until the shop refresh
I already have too much money, and i’m not even going to bother trying the stupid wtf penances which can only be accomplished by cheesing

And then the Requisitorium is on a 24h rotation
I’d spend on lootboxes, but since the amount of currency you get is capped on a weekly basis, no, i won’t
This currency was very obviously put with such restriction so they can sell it later on in the cash shop for real money

Emperor’s gift is far too rare and volatile to be any good incentive

I heard an interview where Fatshark devs said they designed Darktide to be playable for 1000 hours because they didn’t expect VT2 to have such long lifespan, but right now it’s literally the other way around

edit - And by the way, there is absolutely NO reason whatsoever to play on difficulty 4 and 5 except for challenge funnsies, the chance of failure especially for random groups (the overwhelming majority of your playerbase) is extremely high, you’re way better off farming lower difficulties to complete your weekly or grind money

Go to the Darktide Discord and see what happens there. Most people are spamming Difficulty 1 Assassination missions to level up their character as fast as possible. Do you think they do that just for the sake of then playing the game for fun?

No, after that comes the next grind of reaching highest item powerlevel as fast as possible. If that is reached the grind for the best items start, which is currently not manageable because crafting isnt in the game and red items are apparently not in the game either. Prestige levels also dont exist. So what exactly happens when the grind is over? Do you want to tell me or the “vast majority” who will leave the game in the first two months after release?