But if the baseline is raised, you no longer differentiate between very good, good, mid and bad. You only differentiate between very good and good.
Take another example - Wealth.
If all the poor people suddenly were raised to the same level of quality as the rich, there’d only be the differences between the rich and very rich.
Your argument is that everything is relative and the rich would now be the poor and the very rich the rich. But the truth is that you’ve raised the bar so much, you can’t possibly consider the rich poor.
The same is the case here. You raised the weak playstyles from bad to at least mid, most good. So it stands to reason that every playstyle now has things going for it, just some are stronger than others. But they’re all good. Their goodness isn’t negated by the better ones existing.
Your argument is one of envy. Because there are still better things, my good thing isn’t good enough anymore.
But the good thing is good. You just want it to be gooder so it matches the goodness of the others.
This is such a perfect example. If all the poor people were raised to the same quality as the rich, eventually THEY WOULD begin to be considered poor again. Because everyone has that level of money inflation begins to happen and that money is worth less and less. Suddenly you’re paying thousands of dollars for basic things because a high level of money becomes the new normal. It is impossible for everyone to be in the 1%. That is why it’s the 1%.
As far as playability goes yes it’s hard to make a “bad” build, but again with the meta shift I don’t think everything is good. If you have good damage output but bad ammo economy, your build is worse than a build with good damage output and good ammo economy (very simplified obviously). Suddenly you’re taking more ammo that other people on your team could use etc. So even if it can clear levels fine, it is still “bad” compared to the other build because you are putting yourself at a disadvantage using it. Unfortunately for rating builds and classes you can’t divorce yourself from what the meta is. That is how they are ranked.
Because it’s darktide dude, not vermintide. Melee is useless. FatShark could only add specialist and ranged enemy amount to raise difficulty. Most elites can not be handled with only melee. The melee weapon is just for crowds. Maybe you can just delete darktide and wait for vermintide 3.
The current state of the game has made ranged weapons/options that are very easy to use very powerful and ranged options that require a lot of skill either lackluster overall or potentially decent but with very significant hedging from Fatshark to prevent them from really shining.
It’s nice that more things are good now, but the wrong weapons are best from my perspective. I could live with the Bolter being god tier because despite what some people thought, there was actually a respectable skill gap between those who were using it. The Autopistol was an outlier, and it definitely did need a nerf. It still did/does require more skill than Assail and even stuff like the Plasma gun.
I was OK with the Trauma Staff being secretly amazing. The Voidstrike being flat out better than it now doesn’t make a lot of sense.
The tier list should reflect the skill required to use the weapon, at least for the most part. It’s obviously not going to be 1:1, but with the state the game is now, it’s closer to inverted than 1:1.
I think all this kind of posts are just poor zealots complaining lol. Melee is just marginal figure now. If they really know what causes this, they will find FS.
Yeah the stagger is good but it has no killing power. I have no idea how you manage to do it. I main ogryn have a solid record of games under me with him mostly (auric,damnation) but the kickback just does not do the damage against shooters/ anything outside of 3m.
I tried it against a sniper from 3m it did not even kill him. Despite power stacking traits, see my other thread for specifics (Twohanded ogryn weapons).
You know, I actually don’t feel like killing snipers is a particularly important metric. Firstly, many things have to go wrong for the ogryn to be forced to take care of snipers. Secondly, killing snipers at far distances doesn’t feel that much better than the before-times. Snipers are unarmored and super low health… they’re going to die if you breathe on them hard enough.
Crushers, also, apparently not a metric to measure things by . You can take both rending talents as gunlugger to enjoy doing exactly what everyone and their mother is doing to carapace armored enemies right now, or take the fire talent to do the same thing to bosses. It’s just, whatever.
Concerning shooters, again, mostly the same as the before-times. They die a little faster from farther away. Again, whatever. To me I’m doing the same things I used to do before the console release.
My one and only real concern is the big ammo reserves. That’s really it. You can comfortably go the whole map shooting lone elites or the errant bruiser and just not be wasting ammo.
I have not tried this yet. I kind of wrote off surgical as just being the 1-shot mutie blessing. Will have to try it and see (current gun is locked to Blaze Away and Expansive)
Edit: I am back to say that I did try this. Initial result was ok. Run n Gun accuracy bug was surprising but got very low mileage from surgical, probably because I couldn’t fish for perks.
The what are you smoking where melee is obly useful against crowds?
Literally one of the fastest TTK weapons for monstrosities and elites is the Thunder Hammer. Never mind that you can stun lock elites silly with most of the Ogryn weapons and the psy blades often stun lock and so ludicrous damage to things.
Yeah if you run straight into a gunner or sniper in open ground you aren’t going to get far but locking up ranged attackers in melee is a primary feature of not just he game but a WH40k staple strategy.
Haha, yeah totally! I 100% didn’t only change it after 500 hours in the game. I’m very smart and intelligent!
On a completely unrelated and tangental note, why are they even on the same key in the firsr place? Seems very weird. Also on controller are they automatically bound together?
Honestly I just find it more comfortable to keep it that way since I have well over 2k hours in warframe.
Won’t get carpal tunnel due to all the weird ways of having to bend my hand to aimglide.
Back on topic a bit I feel like shotguns are always going to be just that little bit too good or too bad to use. The SST Squad Like recently updated them and now you can do sone godly strats with them.
The kickback is in an odd spot since it SHOULD feel powerful since it’s an Ogryn sized flechette cannon but it’s also a 1 shot per reload weapon meaning it should be cumbersome.
Reducing damage is imo not the right call since you just have the same issue as before. Increasing spread may help since it would retain its close to mid power while not sniping things anymore.
Increasing reload is iffy since I can see it get irritating having to reload all the time. Maybe start by adjusting the effective range caps and see where they goes.
It’s just kind of an awkward weapon to balance while keeping it feeling like it should
If it works for you it works. Personally while it didn’t happen to me a lot, there were a couple of times where a jump ate a dodge input that resulted in my face having a rather intimate moment with the business end of a two handed chain axe.
I’ve changed my jump/vault button to left alt and it has been working way better for me and is not uncomfortable to use. Additionally its kind of funny because my clip keybind also uses alt so at the end of all of my clips I do a little hop.
Ya know, its people saying things like this on the webernets that gave me the idea for this challenge in the first place. I will be reprising my solo-try game for another revenge round pretty soon. But one thing is pretty clear: you are able to melee large numbers of elites, even gunners and elites, if you understand the mechanics. Not indefinitely and in all cases and terrain, but generally speaking.
. You can take both rending talents as gunlugger to enjoy doing exactly what everyone and their mother is doing to carapace armored enemies right now, or take the fire talent to do the same thing to bosses. It’s just, whatever.
