I believe it could benefit from a faster baseline reload speed and more ammo to begin with. It doesn’t hit hard enough to justify using right now.
It needs a damage buff, massive damage buff. It should just delete enemies at close range.
That could work, yeah!
I’ve to disagree with the statement that its not worth using.
It’s on the slow side, I’ll not argue that, but among the Ogryn’s list of weapon actually rather quick to ready. Its your typical shotgun, which works great against soft targets and from my experience obliterates them in the a red mist of blood, guts and gore, perfect for the Darktide setting.
And yes it’s not very effective against tougher and better protected targets, but the kickback has its name for a reason. It knocks nearly everything flat on its back. Despite being a short range cone weapon where most of it’s killing power is, its able to knock foes over at great range. So you can knock over a sniper at range.
The knock down effect is the most important part I would argue, plenty of ranged weapons which require multiple hits to foil an attack on a special and stagger or kill it. That time to kill/interrupt is something the kickback doesn’t have, point, click and knock it down.
Mutants are the exception here and pox busters are also resilient, but timing it right as it gets really close, you can foil their attack and knock it back to have it explode without causing any harm.
And then their is ammo, when grouped with a veteran I typically never run out of ammo. With it being a short range weapon, I typically keep it at the ready for more defensive purposes and less to engage range targets with, their are more effective weapons for that.
@PrybarBas my main argument is that the rumbler reliably knocks anything down in a huge aoe at least twice the size of the kickback’s aoe, and does so at long range with a better reload and enough damage to kill the horde(and some specials with a direct hit)
Kickback needs better reload or a bigger mag, and dramatically higher damage to compete bc the rumbler is king of knockdown and killing hordes.
A kickback that I have in my inventory is reporting over 1k damage, nothing else I have OTHER than kickbacks do that kind of damage and in the psyk it demolishes anything I point it at.
The problem is you don’t need Kickback.
Rumbler can do what Kickback does well enough, and it can damage to Crusher. Faster to reload, only weapon that not -% dodge weapon Ogryn got, so easy to dodge while reloading. You can snipe specials with heavy stagger, actually can kill sniper far ahead. And wider range of blast radius.
Drawback is lesser damage to unarmored one and it can’t stagger certain elites if your grenade land far of them, but still makes them flinch.
Kickback at least should have same reload speed of Rumbler and mobility, that’s the start of being useful.
I think it should feel more like the shrapnel cannon that it is and have deeper penetration so it can just shred a column of goons.
In my mind ogryn’s ranged weapons are like this
Rumbler-anti horde, long range for sniping squishy specials like sniper and grenade guy, or knock down anything.
Grenade gauntlet-long range anti anything, ogryn’s best weapon for key targets, kinda ammo inefficient against horde or scattered riflemen.
Ripper guns- close-mid range general purpose, good for specials/horde/armored but fails painfully at long range.
Twin stubber- suppress anything, good against scattered ranged mobs and horde, terrible at long range and bad against heavy armor.
Kickback- bad against heavy armor, can knock down a wave but reload takes too long to shoot before they get up and charge you. Cant kill some specials in one shot even at point blank range.
It’s just a tip.
Grenadier gauntlet with enough blast radius has more damage output if you aim correctly to Reaper, in fair amount of range (out of long melee range but not so far that you can’t shot every pellet to an small enemies even with zoom), Grenadier gauntlet can still compete with Kickback to any kind of enemies.
It needs to shoot more pellets with some more cleave(and probably slightly more pen for bosses’ shields).
Grenadier gauntlet is great, it just eats up ammo more than the rumbler bc rumbler’s aoe is big enough that you can usually fire one grenade and then charge into melee when it knocks everything down/kills trash.
Rumbler is a cc and trash clearing tool.
Grenadier gauntlet is a great long range weapon for killing specials or a few riflemen.
Gauntlet is a ranged weapon in my mind while the rumbler is a cc tool to help you get into melee or control a horde.
I use Rumbler normally, because of exact reason you said + GG is hard to kill shooters behind cover (you need to calculate how much your ammo falls). And it’s ammo consuming job to do that things. Killing special with it is painful compared to the other classes.
Even I have almost everything 80%( 60% melee) stat grenadier gauntlet, I use Rumbler which is helpful when your team surrounded by many elites with horde.
What I want to say to Vahnkiljoy was Grenadier gauntlet can make more damage output compared to Kickback with GG’s high blast radius stat when you land your ammo to their torso.
It’s a really disappointing weapon. It’s just awful. Sure it can knockback the enemies like the name suggest but the rumble is just better.
Kickback for sake of simplicity in the argument is hit scan. The rumbler is indeed faster to reload, but included the delayed detonation, I would not look surprised if they are the same. The grenade has a flight path, you need to lead the target, along with timing its detonation delay.
Hitting soft target with the grenades knocks the off their feet, but anything with mass, it will simply bounce off from and they continue walking/running, I’m certain the blast radius will still catch up with them though.
Rumbler, is capped at 400 damage, which is applied over the blast radius
As for blast radius, I’ve not figured out how this works, I’m guessing the epicenter were is does full damage and beyond that its dropping
Kickback, is capped at 1150 damage.
Maybe the rumbler is the better one, when compared to the kickback and maybe its just me who has a preference for it’s ease of use, point click knock it over vs something which requires a bit more aiming and timing.
The rumbler’s main purpose is cc, the kickback tries to be a big one shot shotgun.
When you get to higher difficulties, neither one can kill their target in one shot reliably. The difference is that the rumbler can cc that sniper or grenadier halfway across the map long enough for a ranged teammate to finish the job or long enough for you to charge it.
The rumbler could do 0 damage and I would still find it more useful than the current kickback, atm I would rather use a rippergun instead of a kickback even at very close range where the kickback should shine.
Even if they buff the kickback to wreck close range, I would rather just use melee and have my ranged weapon for snipers/trappers/grenadiers as they feel like the biggest threats at high level play.
You can see actual damage when you click tab in that menu. Power isn’t damage. Anyway Rumbler’s damage is inconsistent because of delayed grenade (you can’t be sure the target will be in the epicentre radius). Rumbler is weaker than Kickback, but you can’t land every pellets, Rumbler is stronger. (so most of the case).
As you said Kickback has some advantage over Rumbler, yes. You don’t need to aim, more reliable to knock down enemies.
But with Rumbler, you actually can kill shooters, even luck isn’t your side, you still can stagger specials (When epicentre is far to knock down). Normally if you hit sniper, it will kill him with direct hit + boom damage.
Ant it can damage specials more than Kickback who are far away from you.
But the most distinctive use of Rumbler is you can stagger + knock down many elites + horde near your party, because of huge radius. (higher difficulty, there’s 4 ragers + 2 Crushers situation, in this situation Rumbler is really useful. With the longest dodge distance + limit of Ogryn’s weapon, you shoot 2~3 shots near Elites while dodging horde, your teammate will kill all the elites with overpowered Bolter or something) Kickback has smaller spread compared to knock down many elites compared to Rumbler (and can’t penetrate, if armored one is your target, so you can’t knock down enemy behind the target), and most of all slower reload speed to do that. This is the reason Kickback should have at least Rumbler’s reload speed.
And Kickback doesn’t have decent blessing. Even useful one has +5% power, there’s no explanation that it can stacks… At least, Rumbler has +rending blessing.
Agreed, i’ve been checking out the ogryn weapons while grinding 100 matches for the penance.
The Lorenz Kickback is the worst ranged weapon the ogryn has in the game right now.
It is completely useless, it should be deleting unarmoured enemies from a medium range at least. Instead it staggers them and thats it.
Using it as a stagger weapon is also not worth it considering the ogryn can do that with other weapons, melee or ranged. that actually do damage beyond 1m in front of them.
In fact, i dare anyone to use this thing in damnation effectivelly without being carried by their team, that difficulty quickly reveals how bad the gun is in fact.
As a Damnation Kickback enjoyer, I find that it does ok but it definitely needs a buff of some sort. I want to love this gun, it’s a beautiful future-blunderbuss but it’s not quite there yet.
I think it’s viable in most situations but falls short when things go south quickly. My #1 issue using this gun in Damnation is not the damage or the range but the fact that the reload is so long (at 80% reload roll it’s still 2.96 seconds - I’ve yet to roll one that has the Reload Speed perk, maybe that helps but I doubt it). Whenever this thing fails me, I don’t think “I wish it did more damage” or “I wish it had more range”, I’m thinking “I wish this gun was loaded.”
For me the main benefit of the Kickback over the Rumbler (other than just being satisfyingly chonky sounding and making enemies explode into geysers of blood) is the fact that you get an instant knockdown/stagger on basically anything, and being able to interrupt a special from range before they do something or knock down a squad of shotgunners is really valuable… buuuuuut that is completely offset by the fact that on Damnation there’s so much stuff going on that half the time you need that clutch knockback, it won’t be available to you.
The Rumbler has the massive AoE and the single target damage, while the Kickback is more focused and requires proper positioning and timing to use effectively, so it’s kind of mystifying why it has such a long reload time.
I think a reload buff would put it in a decent place as a high utility weapon, though its blessings also need to be looked at. Most of them don’t really have a noticeable impact or seem completely at odds with the way the weapon works in practice, like they intended it to be a close range deleter of specials/elites, which it’s definitely not (you can chunk one rager up close occasionally?).
It needs around a 3x-4x damage buff to even start being competitive, unless you otherwise change how impactful its blessings/suppression and other role based things operate