Tapping “R” once to quell peril works perfectly fine in every other game mode. However, in Havoc (with the quell reduction modifier), a single tap no longer works. It forces you to hold the key to get the same result.
I understand the intent behind this change: spam-tapping “R” was an unintended exploit that bypassed the quell reduction. It needed to be fixed. However, this implementation has improved the game for no one.
This change negatively impacts:
• Veterans: Who rely on muscle memory built over hundreds of hours across all other game modes.
• New Players: Who spent ages learning the mechanics, only to have them suddenly stop working in end-game content, causing frustration and overloads.
• Teammates: Who suffer potential havoc progression loss from psykers overloading and derailing that game because of the change.
Havoc should be harder (toughness reduction, etc.), but making it harder by breaking fundamental, cross-mode game mechanics is just not fun.
A better solution: Keep the spam-tapping nerf (so spamming doesn’t outpace holding “R”), but please restore the functionality of the first single tap so it behaves exactly like it does in every other game mode.
I was incredibly excited for this update for weeks, but now my favorite game mode just feels frustrating. Please Fatshark, I just want to come home and have fun.
I am over lvl 1500 on psyker and im taking a break from the game until this gets fixed its absolutely ridiculous. Like some cool little tech let you quell a bit faster and apparently that is SOOOOO over powered that they need to make the class unplayable in havoc. I also dont even think it should be patched out to be honest with you. It is very simple tech which they have implied has a place in the game and its not even some weapon swap macro I literally could do it with my hand naturally. tech like that makes this game fun for me but at the very least if it does not get added back the delay needs to be removed asap.
Agree 100%. I got back into HAVOC (I only play HAVOC) after some time off in SM2. I have over 1200hours exp mainly psyker. I thought my keyboard was broken until I read up on this change. This is awful.
You can nerf peril gain, anything else really but PLEASE don’t mess with player’s muscle memory, it makes the game feel so so very bad.
Kindly remove this mechanic so we have normal tap quelling back. Please..
To be fair I always thought that tapping to quell a whopping 5% was too much. Especially combined with the staff mechanic which lets you keep blasting your charged attacks even after reaching 100%. These two together can completely circumvent peril management…
I will test it tomorrow before giving a final verdict, but it sounds like a solid change.
For some reason I had gotten it into my head that this new change was to prevent overriding the limitation on ROF with primary spam on staves, that some players abused to enable machinegunning the void and electrokinetic primary attacks, or superspam the inferno m1. Which I would have been fine with since I believed that wouldn’t affect anything I do, since I never abused those mechanics in the first place.
But since it affects your ability to tap-quell before an attack it massively breaks high-peril play and makes talent like a Warp Ghost and Peril Equilibrium extremely detrimental to safety. Which I’ve now learned through hard experience has forced me to do this:
I’m running around with SURETY OF ARMS talent despite not having a reloadable ranged weapon, because any other route into DD requires me to take talents that make me stay at high peril forcing me to waste even more time quelling.
But the change, which I’m still not quite sure how works, appears to have had some weird side-effects too. I’ve found there is some sort of weird delay on Force Greatsword I can’t exactly put my finger on. It has something to do with how quickly you can change from swinging to blocking, or switch from ranged weapon to sword. I’ve been caught so many times now in this strange “in-between” state taking poxwalker hits where the sword is either not quite ready to block, or to swing, and I still can’t figure out why it happens.
Something is definitely off with the interactions between this new change and how both quelling, blocking, and switching weapons occur. It feels like a massive across-the-board nerf to psyker since it’s not just hitting primary spam abusers, it’s affecting psyker play across all builds and playstyles on survivability. There are these weird little delays that crop up constantly.
It feels so bad, 2k hours of consistent playtime and now it takes nearly double the time to get down any peril at all. The whole point of only tap quelling was to get enough peril to get off another quick cast or two, but now it takes so long to initiate the quell, I’m better off quelling down to low peril. But this breaks the Talents/Blessings that rely on power from being at high peril consistently.
And once again, the staff that really didn’t gain much benefit from tap quelling is the Purgatus staff. So, its relative power actually went up in high havocs. Scriers Gaze through Warp unbound also effectively is buffed as it ignores the peril management mechanic.
If this nerf is here to stay, then I believe we need some additional ways to manage peril outside the two blessings of Solidity or Reality Anchor, forcing Scriers gaze.
I am perfectly happy to reduce peril management as a way to go around balancing psykers in havoc, but this is a large broad stroke that, from its absence in the patch notes, is indicative of Fatshark’s complete ignorance of how much this impacted the past years of psyker gameplay.
In what way does needing to take more than one frame to vent between shots break high peril talents? You can merely take like a second to vent ~20% peril as intended. After all, that’s how the plasma guns work with their extremely meta high heat blessings. And they’re really goddamn strong weapons. Psyker doesn’t even need to expend any toughness either, as meaningless as that is.
Pray tell, what are shriek, battle meditation, crack of bone, empyric resolve, inner tranquility, and the force sword/staff quell blessings if they aren’t additional ways to manage peril? Not to mention just learning to hold r for a little bit.
It was literally added to the patch notes like 12 hours after the patch went live. It was just left out by accident. Which is a normal thing that happens to every development studio.
It puts you into high peril more often, forcing you to quell more often, which now takes longer, so increases risk.
Sure, and the more often you have to do that the more risk you invite. You can’t quell and block or push at the same time.
And all of those work, but if we’re forced to take those now to deal with the increased risk, it puts a straight lie to the claim that psyker now has increased build variety because of less tax nodes. Things we’d have wanted to take to increase damage or increase survivability now must be put aside for us to take peril-dumping talents and blessings.
I booted up staff psyker to see for myself and I’m pretty surprised. One random bug fix and peril has almost become a real game mechanic (in one game mode). 500 review bombs before it gets reverted.
Like some sort of risk vs reward mechanic? What’s the issue again?
Sounds like build variety to me if there is a reason for players to branch out and actually use the tools at their disposal to manage peril. Instead of just tapping r between casts or sitting in scrier’s gaze/warp unbound permanently to functionally ignore the entire mechanic.
Again, plasma guns already manage this same dichotomy of “fat deeps” vs “finding time to safely vent” just peachy. And with a vastly more limited set of heat management tools as neither veteran nor skitarii have any sort of talents related to it.
I mean sure the game doesn’t punish you for manually venting with self damage like it did in vermintide. And there’s literally no other downsides to high peril, but still.
For real, playing psyker in havoc should feel the same as playing psyker in every other game mode. Obviously havoc should be harder but this isn’t making it harder, its making it feel terrible.
I agree, I only play havoc and this change has made playing havoc unenjoyable for me. The fire staff and weapon spam was far too op but this wasn’t abusing anything.
The issues are what I explained. Let me copy-paste it here again:
On the issue of talents that put you into high peril: “It puts you into high peril more often, forcing you to quell more often, which now takes longer, so increases risk.”
“Sure, and the more often you have to do the more risky you invite. You can’t quell and block or push at the same time.”
I mean I hope you understand the issue if I bring up the challenge of reload time for example. Time spent reloading is time you’re vulnerable. Risk.
There’s talents and blessings that reduce reload time, but I’m pretty sure people generally don’t go for those over more interesting dmg-and-utility improving talents and blessings if they can avoid them.
Many psyker players had a muscle-memory built up on how to manage peril in risky situations where you are surrounded, possibly in gas, and a specialist turns up at range and you need to throw maybe a quick push or shoot a primary staff projectile, but if you’re too high peril you have to quell first (and that now takes more time, which is therefore more risky and will get you killed). And since the muscle memory is now wrong, often psykers now misjudge the time it takes to quell the required amount, tap to quell, don’t in fact quell, then push or shoot and overload instead.
So in every way imaginable this change increases risk.
On the issue of talents that reduce peril: “And all of those work, but if we’re forced to take those now to deal with the increased risk, it puts a straight lie to the claim that psyker now has increased build variety because of less tax nodes. Things we’d have wanted to take to increase damage or increase survivability now must be put aside for us to take peril-dumping talents and blessings.”
Yeah but that’s not how Fatshark sold us these new changes. The patch was sold to us as a way of removing tax nodes so you could take more of the interesting talents you like.
Here’s what they wrote:
With respect to psyker specifically:
None of this reads like attempts to force peril dumping talents on psyker players to counteract the effect of the nerf to tap-quelling. Quelling being an issue isn’t mentioned at all in the patch notes.
It all reads like attempts to bring talents together that were previously far apart so you can do better mix and matching and complete stronger builds.
Which was in fact the player engaging in active peril management. The mechanic was there and psyker players had learned and internalized how to do it well.
That appears more like a complaint about warp unbound than it does about quelling specifically. This new changes basically just provides all the more motivation for psykers to go scriers+warp unbound (the very thing you complain about) to compensate for the nerf to tap-quelling.
As you’ve already admitted, psykers were in fact also already actively using the quelling mechanic to balance damage and peril.
In what way does needing to take more than one frame to vent between shots break high peril talents? You can merely take like a second to vent ~20% peril as intended. After all, that’s how the plasma guns work with their extremely meta high heat blessings. And they’re really goddamn strong weapons. Psyker doesn’t even need to expend any toughness either, as meaningless as that is.
I would generally be ok to this line of reasoning if it was across the board, but all non-havoc psykers are actually buffed with their quell speed with Solidy/Reality Anchor, but its intentionally Havoc that now experiences the added negative adjustment. Now its only ‘half a frame to vent down 20% as intended.’
Pray tell, what are shriek, battle meditation, crack of bone, empyric resolve, inner tranquility, and the force sword/staff quell blessings if they aren’t additional ways to manage peril? Not to mention just learning to hold r for a little bit.
Those all are ways to manage getting to high peril, but offer no benefit while at high peril outside the Battle Meditation gamba. By Crack of Bone does offer active player peril management and thus is good, no argument there.
It was literally added to the patch notes like 12 hours after the patch went live. It was just left out by accident. Which is a normal thing that happens to every development studio.
Only after it was noted by the community, a bad look by having such an impactful change go without note.
It also makes no sense to design talents and blessings for maximizing peril and benefiting from high peril, such as Warp Ghost, Peril Equilibrium, One with the Warp, Just a Dream, Warp Rider, Warp Nexus(blessing), and Unstable Power(blessing), only to then force psykers into taking other talents or blessings that either quell peril or slow down it’s gain.
But supposing I want to avoid high peril and therefore actively avoid talents like Just a Dream, Warp Ghost, and Peril Equilibrium, but I also want to get Mind in Motion (+5% movespeed and speed not reduced while quelling) and Disrupt Destiny, I’m then forced to pick Souldrinker (which does nothing for me since I’m not running soulblaze) and Surety of Arms (which also does nothing for me since I’m using a staff instead of a gun). So that’s two tax nodes that simply have no effect at all. They’re not just some small buff like 5% toughness, rather they’re outright useless.
Interestingly you’re now also forced to get either Warp Splitting(increased cleave based on peril) or Anticipation(+1 dodge and dodge duration), both of which I usually only take on melee builds, to get Empathic Evasion (dodging against ranged attacks on crit) and which were kinda useless on most builds centered around staff. Two talents you previously often would avoid on a whole host of builds. A patch advertised as reducing tax nodes and increasing build variety, you’ve now been saddled with an actual tax node to get Empathic Evasion.
