Also when it comes to comparison of plasma heat mechanic, using LMB makes it impossible to explode, and the ‘meta’ MK II rarely if ever uses RMB, thus meaning it basically doesn’t interact with the overload mechanic at all.
Regardless, would it be acceptable if Fatshark changed the havoc peril quell reduction malus to also include heat dissipation, and not state how this might impact Plasma weapon performance?
That can’t be true because then getting disrupt destiny with a staff means I have to take a talent that is useless on staves.
Your average psyker does not understand this concept.
Yeah, that’s something I felt really hadn’t been taken into consideration with the changes to the tree; psyker builds can go entirely either way on how they want to manage peril, and thus nodes that affect peril are not necessarily just a tax node, but can be actively detrimental, so where they’re positioned on the tree and your ability to path around them is a big deal.
It really feels like Surety of Arms should be down with Peril Equilibrium (for a nice cluster of “here’s ways to get your peril up with non-Warp weapons to benefit from the Warp Rider node you’ve gone through”), and Puppet Master should be the node after True Aim. (Although Puppet Master is definitely a more underwhelming pick now that coherency kills don’t count for Psykinetic’s Aura).
And, indeed, while it’s not necessarily actively detrimental like it can be with Peril nodes, as you say, enough builds may simply not use Soulblaze, so having other things behind nodes that require it is not well thought out.
Mind in Motion might have actually been an interesting pick now it’s got a speed buff rolled into it, and I could have seen more people taking it if it were still as accessible as it was on the old tree, but they’ve buried it quite awkwardly now, so I won’t be surprised if it remains a less than popular pick.
Ah, that’s what you are after. Yeah, for those staff picks which can actually benefit from DD, the current pathing sucks. Then I feel like with quelling changes I feel you are pushed towards Warp Siphon. Removal of Tranqulity Through Slaughter (?) also feels weird, instead of improving ranged psy build options, I feel like it removed gun, crit based builds. Not like I used them myself much, but I believe there were few enjoyers of those .
Better yet apply the change to all modes
Warp ghost is all upside unless you just don’t manually quell at all
There is a large portion of us that just want consistency. Nerf it or don’t. It’s not something that should vary. Imagine all, idk, heavy attacks taking an extra second to charge up, but only on certain difficulties. Not the best analogy, but the point is it’s more than just retraining muscle memory.
Alternative ideas:
I think Warp Ghost can be a large boon when you play melee and you don’t want to waste fgs partial charges to get to and maintain high peril (just to pick an example of a situation I often encounter).
But combined with a staff I find there’s often situations where it becomes anti-synergistic because you might want to switch away from staff and start meleeing while waiting on passive peril quelling (often done this), and suddenly something happens where you need to use warp attacks (fire several staff attacks, or use brainburst) to kill a gunner or a specialist, but you’re still at high peril due to Warp Ghost slow decay, so you can’t finish the brainburst, or push, or fire enough staff attacks for a kill because now you have to actively quell, but it was an emergency requiring immediate action not time wasted quelling etc. So that’s a situation where Warp Ghost became a problem.
There are possible solutions but they’re clunky. One is to go for a talent that dumps peril on melee or DD kills, but that seems anti-synergy with Warp Ghost in the first place. Weird to have two talents that effectively do the opposite of each other. I’m effectively wasting two talent points then if I take one to counteract the products of another.
I like it much more when the player has to take actions to either quell or generate peril. Charge or fire a staff or sword to generate peril, actively quell to get rid of it. Tap-quelling was in fact a way of doing that. I had learned how to do it. There was nothing wrong with it, it wasn’t broken. That’s the style of play I have internalized. It’s in muscle memory.
But the tap-quelling I used to do to mitigate high peril in high pressure situations has now become a liability because of the time investment required. At H40 level this is extremely dangerous. Half-second times added to this really do often mean the difference between getting out clean or going down. It means I can’t do that tap quell before the next enemy swing. Or the bomber finishes the toss. Or the sniper shoots. Or the burster jumps, etc.
I honestly get the sense some people in this thread are just “haha I love it when psykers are mad cuz soulblaze is OP so all psykers must suffer” with zero understanding of how the mechanic affects basically all playstyles. It also affects tap-quelling on sword.
There also appears to have been some sort of indirect nerf to weapon switch speed, or switching from swinging melee attacks to blocking. I can’t quite put my finger on it but something behaves differently. Lately I’ve been caught way more often in between these switches, taking melee hits from poxwalkers or the like before block came up, or before the next sword swing landed.
Every other class has to dodge while reloading and their guns have reserve ammo and aren’t nearly as powerful. Peril is still just “the bar you fill up to get your buffs/activate your wall-ignoring nuke.” You have to hold your reload button for one (1) second and it still doesn’t cost hp like vt2 or toughness like plasma.
This and my last post were me trying to speak without personal bias. With personal bias I would say that psykers are experiencing 1/10000th the pain they’ve inflicted on the playerbase for 3 years. I’ve been dodging psyker players since before havoc was even a thing. I still remember when I expected smite to get a rework.
Like yeah it sucks that your muscle memory died but maybe if fatshark didn’t take multiple years to perform literally any change to this game’s core combat then we wouldn’t have the mess of a game we have now.
I am expecting this change to get reverted anyway, the current combat leads love this class too much and the suits love the review score too much.
“Oh no, the hard mode is hard” isn’t exactly the dunk you seem to think it is.
I do agree that this change should probably apply on all, or at least most, difficulties though, maybe then we’d get psykers with actual build diversity and peril as an actual mechanic.
This debate has been had a million times before. You still had to dodge while quelling if something was actively attacking you (no-one is advocating that psyker should be able to just stand still and tank hits while quelling, and they never could). And other classes got things going for them (chorus, voc, taunt, bullrush, shroudfield, higher health/toughness pools, more damage reduction, until death, insane movement speed/extremely quickly regenerating dodges, etc. etc.) besides damage that psyker generally lacked, should you want to spend time reloading. It’s still the most squishy class. It’s still a glass cannon, despite the total illusion being bandied about that talents like just a dream suddenly made psykers into a tanky class.
Peril was already an actual mechanic on psyker.
What you’re advocating with "build diversity"is that people take talents that remove it on kills, which would… make it into not an actual mechanic but something that just solves itself.
The main culprits that have ruined play for other players are venting shriek+inferno (just as powerful if not more than ever) and scriers gaze staff spammers, both of which basically outright solve the peril mechanic in the first place. Neither of which have to waste their talent points going peril dumping talents.
The extant changes are going to just push more people towards those combat abilities.
What I am saying is builds that don’t go for these easy choices have now been, presumably unintentionally, punished. If you want to make more psykers learn to actively deal with peril through talent and player choice, remove or nerf peril alleviating abilities on shriek and gaze.
Penetrating rebuttal. Someome ass-mad about inferno staff damage will be along shortly to love and thumbsup your post.
well, psyker is finally on par with all the other classes in these?
all of this applies to all other classes because of other havoc modifiers psyker can just ignore. it’s only fair they now also have to play differently on havoc instead of just doing the same thing with 10x value
is it good design for havoc to be balanced this way? maybe not, but it’s even worse design for havoc to be designed this way for all but 1 class
Does staff even have any actual downside compared to firearm on Havoc?
Other range build suffer from huge reduction to ammo pickup while Psyker can still spam staff no problem, having to quell a bit longer seem like barely an inconvenient.
Yes actually. Trauma is just as overpowered as Inferno, just slightly harder to use and so most pub psykers don’t bother.
Reloading? You mean the exact same mechanic that every other class has to deal with to use their ranged weapons? Or at least talent around. Why should psyker be an exception to that again? Just because they can tap the r key?
People take reload speed talents on the plebeian classes all the time. Because they can not only make reloading safer, but can also increase dps uptime.
And I’m mildly sympathetic to that. I know I don’t play Sienna’s unchained career in chaos wastes because the random curse damage screws with her heat generation and it annoys me. But at the same time, that muscle memory is for an exploit that has helped to allow psyker players to outright ignore key downsides of the peril mechanic.
Yes, because having an element of risk was the intended way to play with peril. But Fatshark flubbed and introduced an exploit years ago that allowed players to just decide to ignore that. And instead of fixing the mechanic, and facing backlash, Fatshark tried to limit trivial peril management in havoc. As a mirror to limiting ammo availability. Only to promptly flub it again Then decided to take several years to address this failing. Again. But now the other shoe has dropped.
Pray tell, what part of the tree rework has anything to do with patching out a bug? And remember that this change only affects havoc. In 95% of the game psyker is just flat out stronger like the others.
It’s a loophole in the mechanic that was added in by accident and not supposed to be there. Active peril management is supposed to involve an actual time commitment because otherwise there are zero restraints on just spamming staff attacks indefinitely.
You’re right. It’s an ancillary complaint about how Fatshark has made the “gun psyker” ability into the “everything ability.” Making skriek more or less useless outside of just spamming soulblaze. I just thought I would remind people that it exists. Dumb as it is.
I agree that it is stupid and bad for peril to differ so significantly between havoc and non-havoc. I would prefer if it was like havoc across the entire game. The way it was when the game launched. Just like I would prefer a lot of other things.
I can only imagine that Fatshark decided against this reasonable choice because they did not want to face backlash on the subject from the malice and auric crowds.
Again, these things happen across the entire industry. It’s not a malicious ninja nerfing.
In what way does it make no sense? The concept of riding high peril for maximum damage has been part of the class since patch 13 three years ago. (Or since launch if you count one with the warp.) And such builds worked perfectly fine. It was only after Fatshark meddled with the quelling mechanic much later that they introduced the tapping exploit.
It’s not like modern psyker is somehow less equipped to combat the challenges of the mechanic than it was back in patch 13. Far from it. These days psyker only has even more tools to deal with the problem. They can vent with scrier’s gaze now, can avoid exploding altogether with warp unbound, can drastically reduce peril buildup to stretch each quelling tic further, etc.
I agree that the new psyker tree puzzles me with the placement of certain talents and the strangely limited one way connections. Particularly how access to DD has been placed behind either warp ghost or gun psyker talents. But that is neither here nor there.
Using plasma LMB at critical heat also forces the player to spend about half a second venting before shooting. Plus, as dumb as it is that mk2 plasma has little reason to use its charge attack, the new mk3 plasma does use it to great effect. And does so while needing to be manually vented.
