How dare you forget Versus?! 
4 Likes
This is what I wonder, too. Hats are fine, cool I guess. I was never too into them even in VT1. Because it’s a first-person game. Weapon skins would have made way more sense. You actually see them; there’s infinite options. Here’s a nice easy one; there’s an elf sword skin with a leaf-shaped blade and green metal decorations that go up it like vines. But there’s no matching dagger skin - so even though you can get that sword skin in S+D, your dagger looks different . . . so how about a matching dagger skin?
1 Like
I always thought that we traded bundled paid DLC for Premium Content plus free content. Instead we got premium hats, salty 9ish eur hat, 2 premium careers and only Drachenfell DLC for free. I wouldn’t be surprised if chaos wastes is actually a paid DLC.
1 Like
That was charity. It should be factored out
That would be the norm for an expansion.
The wording was not specific. It was never said that we get all future content for free in exchange for premium cosmetics. Just “some” (with some not closer defined) content for free.
1 Like
True I forgot about the charity, mea culpa. This one though was what initially triggered my response here:
The wording was not specific
I guess the “closer definition” is that they implemented the premium cosmetics on top of paid DLC’s and they will randomly grace us with a free DLC whenever they see fit.
Which is fair in my book. Anyway, if Fatshark should go with a very cheap or even free Chaos Wastes it should be seriously respected as it is unbelievable generous. If people are still bitching then I will invent a way to punch other living forms through the screen.
1 Like
Plenty of games fund their continued support and even the entirety of their game on cosmetics. Obviously Fatshark will try to do what they need to to make a profit on it. But I don’t think it needs to be seen as some huge act of benevolence. It might just make more sense to offer the game mode for free so that more players opt in for it and monetize on cosmetics.
2 Likes
This was an official statement from Fatshark. It was said by the level/narrative design developer as it showed in the picture.
Even the CEO Martin Wahlund has said Weaves were made for it’s replayability.
Deny it all you want but that was the #1 reason why they made the Weaves game mode in the first place.
This is hilarious. They made a game mode they KNEW wouldn’t appeal to the MAJORITY of the player base but that it might bring in new players? That literally makes no sense 
Nice find btw!
5 Likes
This statement obviously refers to Dark Omens.
An adventure level that introduces the new beastman faction as well as moving the storyline forward.
Adventure level = level for adventure mode = basegame.
Introducing the beastmen faction and moving the storyline forward. Also Dark Omens. Beastmen are not introduced in weaves and the whole weaves business came up because the meteor crashed down and the beastmen sung at it. So yeah, Dark Omens should be replayable. And if you like it or not (I enjoy it – with the right party) it forces you to play it more than once since you can’t get all challenges in one run = replayability!
Also in the next sentece he wrote “In addition to this, I designed a number of ‘weaves’ - short objective based levels with different unique gameplay modifiers not found in the base game”. So he wasn’t talking about weaves before, when he said “replayable”.
I don’t really care if they wanted to make it replayable or not and if they failed at it or not.
The relevant question for me is if they made something fun that people want to play.
It does make sense – in a way. You already have the majority of your playerbase. They like what you got already. Trying something different, without damaging the core experience for the audience you already have, might rope in new people, who aren’t interested in the stuff you already have put out. That’s the same they are trying with versus.
That Fatshark might lose more players in the process since they are not focusing on the core experience, leaving bugs, cumbersome mechanics, balance issues, … is the downside. Somewhere someone did some sort of math and expected less players to move away than new people to come in. Especially because you can’t keep players forever.
But Fatshark had said in my other examples that was the main intention of weaves. So, I got one wrong. There are countless more if you just search for it.
Idk how long you’ve been playing but I have a really good memory and I remember seeing “replayability” everywhere before Winds of Magic released.
But where are these new people being drawn in by Weaves?
See? Doesn’t make sense.
1 Like
No where.
But you weren’t talking about the weaves specifically in the quote I responded to. You were talking about the general concept of making a game mode the KNEW wouldn’t appeal to the MAJORITY of the player base to bring in new players. That’s also why I didn’t talk about weaves in my response.
And the concept is understandable. The execution with weaves is lacking. I’d expect. I don’t have numbers on that.
LOL okay. I was talking about Weaves. Idk what you’re talking about.
If you have nothing of value to add then please move along. I don’t have time for arguments.
Now, do you have any suggestions on improving Weaves? It’s a dead mode and not worth the price in it’s current state.
Those games are based around those cosmetics from the beginning though. I don’t disagree that there is merit in providing for free, especially if it will truly be another gameplay mode. It doesn’t make it less generous though, to give away months of work for free. And to believe in the goodwill of the community is kinda hilarious. I don’t think Premium cosmetics could ever bring in what they would be missing by making Chaos Wastes free. There are other ways though, how it would be possible to provide the experience for free and still making money like a split of content between paid and unpaid.
Of course it makes sense. Simply because it doesn’t have much of a connection with the vanilla mode. Aside from playing Dark Omen once, a player can play just Weaves as everything he needs for it, can be gathered in the mode itself. No unnecessary loot attached for example. If this would have been another game instead of a DLC for Vermintide it might have worked completely different.
The mode has an appeal to different people. However, it has issues with the framework around it - mainly accessibility and presentation. Coupled with the communities infamous fixation on not-gameplay related side stuff like the “missing” loot in Weaves, it couldn’t get over the start hurdle though.
1 Like
They will earn my utmost respect if they decide to do so. Also I will join your lab crusade 
Except people don’t. That’s why it doesn’t make sense. Fatshark was hoping it would bring in new people just to play that mode but if you look at the lobby browser there are virtually no active Weave missions.
You cannot pull different game modes from other games and stick it in another game with a completely different audience.
This is why researching your target audience is important. If you don’t know your audience then you won’t know what will work or not.
Weaves do not work which is why it needs to be fixed. Fatshark’s plan did not work. They have said that if it doesn’t work that they would revisit it but they haven’t.
Also, this exists
Source: Fatshark News
I’m sure I don’t have to explain the irony in that quote, do I?
4 Likes
I don’t know if when they started Vermintide if they knew they would be heading as deep in the “games as service model” as they have. But even if they didn’t want to sell it that way, the audience plays it that way. Tencent now has a heavy (from what I understand now majority) stake in Fatshark. That company is the king of free to play (read here as MTX are king). I don’t think its a stretch to say they can swing a transition with both this audience, and with the kind of backing they now have in experts in running a game that way.
If its another gameplay mode like weaves there are a couple reasons you might want to make it free. The new players won’t be playing it that enter from the base game which could hurt the population. Or just look at WoM it could get tons of negative review and then be stranded. The reason to make it free is if you don’t think enough players will buy it. And that’s up to Fatshark to make that decision. But they indicated that DLC map packs aren’t a good way to sell the game, and the last game mode DLC they released was reviewed worse than both the map DLCs.
And I really think continuing like this is a mistake. My take is that making the game monetization murky with tons of content DLC and cosmetic MTX just bogs it down to much and makes it look unfriendly to enter. But again Fatshark knows the backend and makes that call. Again my point is IF they release it for free its still a marketing move not an act of charity.
We would like to thank everyone that told us exactly what the issues were with WoM. Then we barely did anything to it, all those issues manifested and here we are. Well at least we didn’t get seasonal weave resets…not that it matters I don’t play them anyway.
6 Likes
From memory I remember very early pitches for Weaves as being an “endless endgame” which had me thinking something along the lines of Path of Exile delving
What we got is neither endless nor much of an endgame. Granted the latter is very subjective I think it’s safe to say weaves are most certainly far, far, from endless.
I think weaves are salvageable as a mode but from a business standpoint…idk from that perspective I’d wanna abandon them too. I’d LIKE to say the goodwill from fixing weaves is worth it but if that were the case they’d be working on it so idk. I guess it’s hard to calculate for intangibles in this regard. Maybe once all the DLC is said and done they’ll have a crack at it? wishful thinking but hey I’d be extremely happy to be proven wrong on Fatshark’s position regarding weaves, deeds etc.
3 Likes
Doesn’t the season rotation count as replay-ability though 
? Since weaves are the same scripted spawns on the same ten maps with the same eight wind effects just mixed and matched.
Yeah but who plays 160 Weaves every Season besides the content creators? They don’t enjoy high end Weaves just by listening to them or talking to them but they play it because they have FOMO. Fear of missing out despite the frames being recolors.
That’s way less than 1% of the entire player base.
Why is that acceptable enough to keep Weaves as is?
5 Likes