Game’s going to die in this release state, because 80% of players are gonna try the first two difficulties which are faceroll then queue into malice which is somehow unlocked only a few levels in spread frustrating gameplay faster than peak covid.
10 Likes
Malice should be Level 10 minimum
6 Likes
Please no. I would die of boredom if I had to wait until level 10 to play Malice. For me it’s a great difficulty to unlock at level 3. Just because a difficulty is unlocked doesn’t mean you have to play it. It’s good to have as an option.
1 Like
The jump in difficulty from 2 to 3 is way too high. On difficulty 2 it’s too easy, I go in expecting to win. On difficulty 3 it’s too hard, I go in expecting to get completely destroyed by the first encounter that goes even a little wrong.
Like, I understand that there are people who are really good at this game who have no problem cruising through the really hard content even with a low level character, but for me, it goes from too easy to too hard pretty much instantly.
On Difficulty 2 I basically expect to win 49 out of 50 games. What I need is a difficulty where I can win 4 out of 5. Maybe 3 out of 4. That’s sort of the sweet spot where I’m not completely demotivated by repeated failure, but the threat of losing is there.
13 Likes
I think the difficulty jump is fine. I think they just need to make it a bit more obvious that it is a difficulty jump, since the jump from sedition to uprising is so slight.
1 Like
I’ve had odd experiences with Malice. Sometimes it’s not bad, other times it’s absolutely brutal. There were at least 2 games we lost because the AI wouldn’t stop spawning mini-bosses, specials, and ranged units. We could only take a few steps forward, and then another wave would spawn. Zero down time or breathing room. Meanwhile, other times it’s not anywhere near as bad. Deal with a strong wave, then move onto the next room/location. I can only suspect the server isn’t honouring the difficulty level at times. For those 2 games, that’s something I would expect on max difficulty.
7 Likes
I do think this is valid. There seems to be too much variance in difficulty tiers.
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Thats because of mission modifiers. +Hordes modifier will spawn an increased amount of enemies, not even just hordes. This can make a standard Malice run into an extremely stressful endeavour. If you are playing Quickplay, then its basically Roulette, especially when playing with randoms.
I feel like there is too much variance within the same difficulty level. I play Malice, and sometimes it’s intense but very doable, sometimes it’s just hopeless.
I think most of the variance comes from playing with randoms (not to bash on anybody, I am no John Wick either), since teamplay is kind of crucial, and different people have different skills. In my opinion, getting squaded up by default after a game would help a lot in this regard, since at least you would have some idea of what to expect from your teammates.
I agree with both you and “bendking” to curtain extents.
Make the lvl to entry lvl.5 instead of 10 (first Feat) then make it account wide.
This would Que a data tablet (or something) for you to go read and it would around the lines of: Malice is not for the faint of heart, only those with the Emperors blessing should attempt such ordeals. !!!WARNING: HIGHER MORTALITY CHANCE!!!
People need to know what they are getting into.
Even without the modifiers, it varies wildly. I’ve had the same experiences going into a mission when I get a group that can’t move because of the spawns just overwhelming us, when the next match it’s much more manageable.
Did the difficulty get harder than the closed beta?
I remember being able to do level 3 difficulty with my friends who were all pre level 10. Now we get absolutely demolished by it - can’t tell if we just got bad or if it’s just genuinely harder
Call me masochistic but those wild spikes is something I really enjoy.
Yes it might be brutal and punishing, sometimes it feels absolutely unfair, but somewhat doable if we did better.
It keeps us on our feet all the time, not knowing how dreadful a combat might become within a set difficulty.
FS is also probably monitoring and tweaking how the AIs behave and react. Ranged enemies is a good example, compared to the CBT imho (suppression and how close we have to get before they switch to melee).
2 Likes
I dont see that happening on missions without modifiers, nor do the different people i play with.
The director in three is complete crazy. Often two of the same specials spawn or four different ones.
I had encounters with 4 mauler flamers and a hound. Or my personal favorites are: two or three Explodes, or two or three Grenadiers.
I can’t imagine how difficulty 4 or 5 feels. Maybe replace all Poxwalkers with Maulers?
The difficulty should be much more granular upwards, based on special spawn intensity and numbers. I think there is already a ticket system in place for special spawns so it needs to be put into perspective. Right now it feels like difficulty wise from easy to hard: 1 - 2 - 5 and it should be: 1 - 2 - 3.
But that said i manage to win Tier 3 mission at level 17+ so it is doable but it does feels really unfair and random sometimes. As of now i stick to tier 2 missions to grind and these feel good but they start feel unrewarding as the EXP gain is falling off.
I do think there’s quite a jump, because of enemy types as much as anything-the two lower difficulties have very few traitor guardsman, especially the melee ones which are significantly tougher than the ‘chaff’. Malice is when they start becoming the ‘main’ groups you tend to fight, and packs of ranged units are a regular occurrence.
That alone is going to be a large jump for players, because running around with your melee out, especially in the open, becomes an alarmingly good way to die if your teammates aren’t putting down suppressing fire to let you get to the ranged enemies.
However, malice is also when you start getting ogryn units like the reaper and bulwark. So you’re having to relearn the game, to an extent and getting new enemies you’re having to learn to fight at the same time.
Lower difficulties should at least include the ogryn types so players know what they’re fighting at higher levels imo. Payday II fell into this trap where you suddenly started fighting new enemy types at higher difficulties.
edit: Apparently the game heard me, I encountered an ogre bulwark on difficulty 2. A single one, sure, but it was there! This was during the ‘fewer enemies but bigger/tougher fights’ mutator though so that probably had something to do with it.
the problem is the combination of experience required for level ups and the toughness of tier 3. You play at level 2 for a very, very long time and it brings just 1800 XP in comparison to tier 1 with 1700 XP. The reward for tier 3 is much higher and would help to level up sooner, but until level 20 you just should not bother to try tier 3. I am over level 20 now and still struggle - and there is tier 4 and 5 still to come, when is that going to happen, when the progression stops at level 30?
The real problem is how gear power scales in the game.
Level 2 is already quite easy for a completely fresh character, and once you reach level 10 it’s completely trivial.
Level 3 on the other hand, around level 10 feels just right.
However, I had a game where me and my friend (Level 8 and 9) were joined by a duo of level 20 Zealots.
The resulting game was an absolute slaughter, the two Zealots could just run straight through the map spamming M1. Ragers that took 8 headshots for me to kill with my sword they could kill in ONE HIT.
It wasn’t very fun.
The gear power curve needs to be flattened with a Shock Maul.
It’s incredibly difficult to scale and balance difficulty when you have such incredibly wildly varied arbitrary “power” levels on each character.
Vermintide 2 may have had this issue too, but I spent too long at max level with max gear score that I forgot about it.
The increase in power from having access to more weapon types and talents are more than enough to bring a player’s efficiency up to tackle harder difficulties.
You do NOT need the numbered power stat, it just makes things absolutely silly and it really doesn’t make me feel any satisfaction to suddenly turn a difficulty I considered tough into an absolute cakewalk just for equipping a different number in my weapon slot.
1 Like
I’m not really noticing a huge power difference from leveling up gear. I mean, it is slightly better, but it’s definitely not like an 8 times damage increase.
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TBH you have those in 2 also without mutators. There’s a chance that you can have runs where the ‘main’ enemies are the armored ones, and you can see ogryns too but not stacked up as they can be in 3.
I got my Zealot to 30 only through rank 2 because I have had no success with having a balanced team at 3, so I played it a lot.