if a spend 200 coins on a random boon in a map i’d like to get one that works with my current equipment.
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It’s not fun to watch someone just delete every single threat that pops up with zero effort, and builds that can reliably proc the crit based stuff are way way way beyond what others can achieve that way.
It’s not like this is some rare synergy people are pulling off 1/20 games, it’s generally just a single boon.
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Sure, but it’s not like you get these boons every run and on the right career. Trying to bring all boons in line with each other counters the point of this game mode imo.
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Problem is you only need 1 boon and you go from absolute shite to god levels of power and I’m actually talking about 1 guy soloing 4 peoples content. I don’t think that is the intent of the mode either?
“But other roquelites” Just No … its supposedly a 4 player COOP game which turns into a single player.
I understand the point that you should get pretty absurd by the end of it but there is literally no in-between now. You either hit and delete or you don’t. Not to mention in my last 10 runs I’d say roughly 6-7 runs had either explosive shot or chain lightning on a abusable career.
Its honestly not that rare in my experience. Not to mention people tend to gravitate towards these careers which go from 0 to busted instead of something like … I don’t know GK/IB?
There is also the difficulty discussion where you could look for easy power fantasy gameplay on recruit but personally I play cata to have some semblance of enemies being capable of doing stuff.
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I guess that’s true in the lower difficulties. But one crit character having chain lightning on a cata run may be extremely strong but he can’t solo everything in my experience.
Since i’m not a dev i can’t tell you what the exact intention was behind this mod, but i think making it a longer campaign mission wasn’t it.
If you look at the content that is made for this game one could argue that it actually is a singleplayer game haha 
That’s odd. I have done about 50 to 60 cata and legend expeditions and i can count on one hand the times i’ve gotten chain lightning on any character and about 1-2 out of 5 games a teammate gets chain lightning. But that may be just my experience. If the boon comes up that often though i agree it should become more rare to actually get instead of just nerfing it.
But the difficulty really depends on what boons you get. Imo there are worse offenders than chain lightning when it comes to trivializing difficulty in this mode, but it is about having fun. If i wanted difficulty i’d play higher cata tiers or dw .
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You have 4 people who more than likely activate 1-2 random boons per map, and shrine which has 4 choices per char. Even just removing 1 character from this equation makes it pretty likely that at least one person rolls it.
Dno maybe I’m just “unlucky/lucky” in this case.
We talking about stuff that makes you unkillable? or 100 crit? Maybe infinite burning heads? Yeah it can get pretty absurd but at least the general theme for these is that they require 2-3 other boons or weapon synergies to be good.
So the problem isn’t that it’s too strong but that you get it too often. If that is the case i think fatshark shouldn’t nerf it but just make it rarer to get
No the problem is, its too powerful by itself. You can make it the same rarity as Chain lightning and it would still just be 1 boon combination.
The “nerf” does not even have to be too massive, just give it 5-10 second cd and make it proc on hit (usable on more careers), make it similar to the melee variant (you need elite kill to proc it), internal cd so it does not proc 10 times in couple seconds or heck anything else.
It still stays powerful while not going into the absolutely absurd territory with just 1 lucky roll.
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I’ve been on both sides of it and I honestly didn’t mind. Sure, I get you can be a bit frustrated if your build is a very unlucky one and a teammember got them all, but it’s just RNG. You’re still playing together towards a shared objective. Moments when someone got a strong boon - like the lightning - have been celebrated in teamspeak, rather than the reverse.
Plus, towards the end, you get - not always, but most runs - such crazy spawns you’d honestly need crazy boon combos.
There have been many runs when we have been saved only by the miracle of Ranald, and honestly, I feel a nonstop bomb spam, like that or by the potions of endless bombs, or the special items effects are much more disruptive of the normal gameplay than what the boons provide.
Sure, in all my runs I’ve been once able to push a chaos spawn 10 meters off a ledge just by nonstop shooting with that talent: it’s been crazy, it’s been a source of laughs in the otherwise grimdark experience, but it’s not been substantially different from all those times we’ve pushed a monster off a ledge using conventional means.
EDIT: I’m referring to cata content.
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The problem is the trigger - crits. The games is virtually built around crit chance (Swift slaying, crits cause extra damage on headshot etc) There’s loads more examples of how crits form the basis for som any builds and boosting your power on different characters.
However, even on IB with flamthrower the Lightning is disgustingly OP to the point it can wipe the end event of Citadel before anything even climbs up/drops down on each of the different platforms as you ascend. I have completed a Legend run as FK simply standing next to the IB and watching him play like some kind of pseudo-twitch stream. This isn’t good for players who have to stand by.
So, my point being lightning and explosions need to move away from crit chance to trigger, and trigger it some other way. Even having it trigger something like Haleborgs Tutelage that gives guaranteed only every five strikes or ten shots or whatever.
Or it needs a hidden cooldown so some classes can’t just spam the living t1ts out of it.
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Well, as you stated the game is leaning to hard on crit on several occassions. This is more a problem for Adventure Mode where I would wish for a reduction of crit availability. Another story.
For the wastes or specifically changing the trigger, I am not sure it would help much. It would solve the issue with high crit classes like Pyromancer or WHC Fervency. However, it wouldn’t change anything on Engineer or Ironbreaker or Swiftbow because of the insane amount of projectiles. So IF Fatshark thinks it needs to toned down an internal cooldown would work best I guess. The boring solutions are most often the most functional.
On the other hand I think it would also work if we adapt the rarity of the boon. Like giving it an extra rarity class with a roll chance of 2 %. So you need to get lucky for this boon. At the end it is simple rng. It may be enough also if we simple increase the boon pool. Like instead of 50 having about 100 boons. I think increasing the pool is a general goal which we and Fatshark should follow.
If you spend 200 coins on a random boon, it’s your risk. There are boons that, while beneficial per se, can severely cripple some setups. Which is IMO the reason why Chaos Wastes work so well and why nerfing powerful boons is not necessary.
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Cataclysm too. I’ve had a couple Wastes games already where I was just running around and admiring the scenery rather than actually playing. To be completely honest, the game mode is rather boring and underwhelming so far.
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Except the difference here is that these are boons that do nothing. It’s not crippling your setup, it’s not about risk , you just get literally nothing.
I don’t get this logic at all lol. There’s boons that can be a complete waste of coins, or actively make the game less fun to play because you’re just watching your team do things, and that’s why other boons that result in the game being less fun to play because you’re just watching one person in your team do things shouldn’t be nerfed?
How is that a better solution than “There should be less completely useless builds, with more available synergies, and the cap for the strength of a build should be lower than the crit based ones are now”?
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So, GK regeneration on Zealot or Famished flames on BW with Volcanic red bolt/sword is not crippling it?
I am not saying that all that are not useful are bad - but there is a chance of poor synergy that, depending on your character, can be very bad.
I agree with you: you don’t get the logic at all.
I think you should be playing just the adventure mode since it’s obvious you want all the perks of the characters and equipment there with no downsides of the expeditions.
I’ve played plenty of roguelikes man, all of the best ones have balance passes to stop builds from being completely overtuned and to reduce the amount of situations you’re just screwed in.
Hell, Isaac’s on what, patch 4.0.3 now? Including the several different huge overhauls it’s had? Hades is up to patch 50-something? And those are single player games, where the player can heavily tailor how an individual run will go (via characters and pacts of punishment, respectively). In a co-op game it’s even more important that there’s enough synergies available, and that even if someone doesn’t roll very well that they still get to feel like they’re contributing.
Just saying something and then making a dismissive comment when I say I don’t get the logic behind what you said is silly.
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Now you are getting insulted because I have agreed with you?
I don’t get why you’d even bother posting if you’re not interested in talking.