The #1 Reason this game will never be successful is deep in the gameplays core.
The fact that you get shot from numerous sources while playing is already a point that has turned me off from this game since its start. I knew that it will end up becoming a real problem once you end up in a clutch situation.
I and many others have been in numerous of those situations. Right now it doesn’t matter if its due to teammates not being that good at the game or if due to some weird reasons you end up alone.
The problem is that you have no chance of winning this situation, due to the map design (almost no cover, mostly narrow and claustrophobic pathways), due to the ENEMIES CONTINOUSLY shooting you while you can do NOTHING against it.
In the video i was even fortunate enough to play Zealot so i had a chance to stun them with a grenade. Well bad luck because at the other end of the map there was a random gunner constantly shooting me.
THIS IS NOT FUN. IN NOT A SINGLE WAY.
The beauty if your previous game (you guys over in sweden tend to ignore for the most part for some reason) was the ability to win a game in any situation. With enough skill you had the opportunity to beat any situation you came across.
That was the reason why so many of us grinded this game until eternity because the skill ceiling was so incredibly high and bases on your intuition, map knowledge and overall map awareness. It was absolutely amazing that you had the opportunity to overcome everything that game threw at you when you knew how to move, when to use potions and how to position yourself.
Darktide does NOT have this. In 9/10 clutch situations it ends up like this. If you’re lucky you don’t have a lot of range units (either gunners, shooters whatever) and you can shoot them 1 by 1 while you are also lucky enough to have cover.
Of course i don’t expect you guys to remove any sorts of gunners or shooters from the game.
But i just wanted to let you know that this is the #1 reason this game will never be as successful as your Vermintide 2. The sheer inability to not overcome anything, even if you play everything perfectly. Because in the end a random trash unit can shoot you from the end of the map and you can do NOTHING against it. It feels unfair, it is an abolutely questionable design decission and i know for a fact that you guys over at the office KNOW about it. But you don’t care. Like so much stuff about this game.
The mp4 example i provided is the proof of how you guys managed to ruin a promising, hyped game until the lowest levels of the steam charts.
You can fix the game however you want, you can throw out update after update, new class after class.
I could have 5.000 hours of play time and i could not have avoided this. It is simply not well designed. Agree with me?
It’s sort of funny. I have never seen a type of game before the Tide series from Fatshark that has been consistently called both, too hard and too easy by the same community.
And you’d be wrong, the situation you showed us here was extremely clutchable. In the panic of the moment you advanced and opened yourself up to being shot by moving to the middle of the room. You could have backtracked instead and went around the corner behind you. It would have been very safe, allowing you to snipe that Reaper and the Shooter with your Autoshredder Pistol.
Even more convenient was the crates to the right at 0:16 seconds. They would have provided exactly the cover you desired. You slow walked right by them and got shot.
The true reason is the undercooked release, the slow patching and communication, and the player hostile design at the beginning and end of every potential play session.
Watching that makes me want to play Darktide. It’s situations like that in which I strive for in Vermintide Cata. A pump of pure adrenaline from the heart straight to the blood stream.
It’s a ranged/melee hybrid gameplay, if you want mostly melee there is Vermintide
Darktide is more teamplay focused than Vermintide by design, the more numerous disablers and their chaotic behaviors, the coherency buffs/toughness regen further increases this difference. You really don’t want to end up with 0 teammate for too long
There is several issues with choices you made in this example from a gameplay perspective - by saying this I’m not implying that you are a bad player. This long tunnel can be unforgiving when there’s a lot of shooters. Shredder autopistol is not optimal for those kind of long ranged shootouts, you would’ve had less trouble picking those up from afar with a weapon like kantrael XII for instance. Also, you are playing the lvl 30 feat that reduces CtW cooldowns on crits I suppose? It’s also less forgiving when you are away from melee, compared to the one that straight up gives you two charges. Lastly, you shoud’ve waited a couple seconds behind the crate on the right before going out of cover and taking your chance, your Ctw was almost available.
Dealing with shooters will become less and less of a problem with time and effort, especially on zealot, when you get a good hang of the dodge/slide dance
(Remember that zealot takes 0 toughness dmg when sliding)
I could go on for ages on reasons why this game isn’t successful, the ranged combat design is imho not one of them
I quite like the ranged combat. It adds a unique aspect to the game that forces you to change up your entire playstyle and positioning instead of just mindlessly meleeing and W key-ing until the end
I have to agree with them, in this case you made the choice to advance when your ult was coming up in a second and you had a spot at the right side to cover, wait, and then charge him with it regaining shield and going back again. When you’re alone you need to think very carefully what your next movements will be.
Again, as others said, this doesn’t mean you are a bad player, the stun on the Reaper with the granede to buy you time was good, you choosed to delete the range on the cover you could’ve used, killed the Tox flamer and the dog with barelly no vision over this second one. That was flawless, but, you choosed to advance there which was a wrong choice
I fuc.ked up myself some of these scenarios, but I know I went for the wrong choices.
Just keep it up :3
As much as it’s true that OP made some errors, this game has a big ass problem, which is that avoiding enemy fire sometimes is impossible due how many enemies are shooting you, you simply can’t sync your dodge to deal with all the enemies AND you don’t regenerate toughness if you are the last surviving member of a team. Sure, he could just waited for his ult… but that’s not a guarantee of success considering that enemies can shoot you out of it or kill you even while you are dashing forward.
Sometimes you can’t even take a peek to shoot at the enemy because they will shoot and hit you almost instantly. Plus sometimes the cover you are using won’t even work. The game NEEDS toughness regen even if you are not with the team.
The decision to not implement toughness regen when alone to promote teamplay is a joke considering that psyker and vet can bypass that.
Elite gunners/reapers have too much stagger imo.
They should be looked at, because they can often pretty much stunlock you (suppression+stagger).
Also, class abilities should never get canceled by being staggered, or by the toughness being broken.
That said, and although not all loadouts are great for clutches, as others already pointed out: the situation in the video was lost due to panic/lack of skill.
A lot of people are incredibly out of touch and it seems like they do not play pubs at all. There is quite a bit of elitism mixed with humble bragging involved as well.
Some say that the game is far too easy, but when playing pubs, it becomes glaringly obvious that the large majority of the players who queue for damnation in the first place, are struggling with basic damnation (even with a carry in the group, who does 50% of the work). Even those who have hundreds of lvls on their character (which is a lot of playtime), often seem to struggle with damnation.
Some say that Darktide is much easier than Vermintide 2, which is absolutely not true, when considering the existence of ranged units and how probably >90% of the playerbase struggle to deal with them.
Example: vigil station oblivium mid map objective (scan a few corpses, talk to servo skull, press elevator button and wait for elevator). There are 2 houses in the area, which provide great cover while waiting for the elevator to arrive, but the large majority of random players just waits right in front of the elevator, which is a cornered position with absolutely no cover. The position would be fine if there were no ranged units, but because Darktide has ranged units (and many people play as if there were none), those players get annihilated on heresy and above. Early after release, people standing in front of the elevator, almost guaranteed a wipe.
Some say that certain weapons are „completely overpowered“ and „NEED to be nerfed“, claiming that the only reason for the low pick rate of these „completely overpowered“ weapons, is that „using these weapons would make the game too easy“.
Meanwhile in other games, players jump on anything that is overpowered and even spend real money to reroll their characters when ever a different class becomes overpowered. In reality, most players are struggling and could use any help they can get. If those „completely overpowered“ weapons really were so overpowered, almost everyone would use them (as the powersword and the zealot flamer were a few months ago, before they got nerfed).
The game in general is not too easy.
It is just that player skill and teamplay are incredibly valuable and there are a lot of factors that make the game hard for players who lack the skill or team to overcome them.
Those who have the skill and teammates to overcome the challengng parts of the game, want more difficulty, but the large majority of the playerbase is not that skilled.
There is no problem with adding an additional difficulty at the top, but those who claim that the game is too easy in general, are out of touch with reality.
Amen to this… Elitism is a big time problem in Darktide… Usually threads like this will instantly flooded with “gid gud, major skill issue, tell me u don’t know to play darktide without telling me u don’t know how to play darktide” comments in no time… I mean I saw many elitists here start bullying other’s for playing low intense missions… Wth…Get a live… It’s a frigging game… Everyone should play it how it makes fun…
@Flawless
That is a good write up, I fully agree.
I feel like this isn’t just an issue with forum dwellers and players but with FS as well. Their playtesters and devs are most likely highly skilled and competent players who play together, I doubt they spend any time with pugs and don’t see the glaring problems. This is why they fix and nerf the wrong things over and over.
OP is right that ranged units are a big difficulty in the game. They have been from the start. This is why they have been fixed and nerfed repeatadly since launch.
As it is now we have far far less of them and they do far lower dmg than they used to do. We used to have 10-15 kill squads that spawned out of nowhere and just ended the group in seconds.
I believe the issue stems from toughness and coherency and the issues with those mechanics. Any new player is going to assume toughness is a shield and get boned by ranged units because of it. Most players also won’t research how toughness works and will keep assuming it is a shield or the game is broken
the compounding issue with toughness is that you can’t really seek cover, because if you are alone, you don’t regain toughness. So the idea is actually to charge into melee to regain toughness through melee kills or hide as a group and snipe.
In a pug you will be forced to do whatever the group decides on the fly, which is usually to scatter in different directions and die alone.
So, you have to pick weapons and feats that allow you to carry and thrive. This means abusing every piece of meta build and weapon you can acquire, if you arent skilled enough to compensate.
If you join a pug without a good horde clear and specialist delete weapon, than you are risking wiping because you have to assume the other three members of your pug are pacifists.
To OP. No I do not believe ranged units being the number one issue. That is silly. There are far worse and glaring problems. But it is no doubt your biggest issue and I’ll respect that.
I would advice using the feat that gives two charges to your class skill and only using it as an escape and toughness refill.
While also picking the stun immune feat at lv20.
See if that combo helps you in these clutch situations, it has certainly helped me.
that juggle shredder-knife-shredder was pointless, you ended up being shot in the middle of the tunnel, instead of slide’n’spray, luckely ripper was reloading
turn on your torch also, so you can see something atleast like second dreg shooter that appeared later near ripper
there was a spot where you could just wait till yor ultimate is ready (free 50% toughness) and till ripper will go in reloading phase again, that was your main mistake as people already said
that moment when you was walking in a straight line towards ripper looks like you were expecting him to die faster, probably you need to know your gun better
This combined with a famously slow roll of content that somehow had time to lag behind VT2s. As for the OP the key to shooters is the slide. Dodge does avoid bullets but for no where near as long. Zealot has a slightly longer slide than the rest of the cast, and takes 0 damage during a slide as long as his toughness is full (sliding automatically dodges bullets but does not break melee tracking like a dodge). Spend more time with the game. The combat issue that is suffocating skill expression is with Stamina, especially with oppressive bosses destroying already low viability low mobility loadouts like Chaos Spawn being added. Please let us recover stamina when we aren’t using pushes or running, and make the stamina regen curio impact the initial delay.
