Swiftbow inconsistency

Hello! I was checking charged swiftbow shots on cataclysm stormvermin when i realized that this bow does not seem to apply critical damage properly.

Stormvermin
Headshot (H) : 26
Critical headshot (C-H) : 34.
Increase : 8

This low increase caught my attention and i checked the bodyshots and saw that one did 15.5 while a critical did 28, a bonus of 12.5 and a similar pattern works on bestigors as well.

I checked further.

Chaos warrior.
Headshot : 8.5
Critical headshot : 28.75
Bodyshot : 0 (…well superarmor k then.)
Critical bodyshot : 22.75

No problem?

Chaos raider (big shirtless w helmet&axe dude)
Headshot : 9.25
Critical headshot : 31

Seems normal here too, crits do a lot more damage.

Stormfiend
H : 12.25
C-H : 16.25

4? Damn that´s low.

Firerat
H : 26
C-H : 34

Back to 8 again.


So yep, the critical headshot bonuses swiftbow gets seem rather strange being lower than bodyshot crit bonus damage and…well not being much at all despite being a crit.

Thus i think somethings gone wrong, probably…might just be some particular balancing behind it.

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As for the storm fiend, most likely has to do with boss modifiers.

If so then it is likely something unique to the stormfiend itself since it´s the only one with armor on it´s head…i am too lazy to check that though.

From the V2 wiki, the reason why swift bow does less damage is because of the following,

"All boss enemies have one of these three types of damage reduction: Lord damage reduction, Armoured Boss damage reduction, and Boss damage reduction. Base damage, headshot/crit damage, backstab damage, and power boost damage are all individually weighted based on reduction type.

Boss damage reduction is given to enemies which are considered Monsters would be your typical
Rat Ogre, Minotaur, ect.
Bosses have:

  • Damage reduction of 45%
  • Headshot boost reduction of 50%
  • Power boost reduction of 50%
  • Backstab damage reduction of 25%

That does not explain crits not working properly though, as in being that much lower, just damage being lower relative to when applied on other targets.

Why arent crits working properly?

Different enemies have different modifiers. Whether it’s boss modifiers, armor modifiers, ect.

None of the Critical headshots you supplied are less then Critical body shots.

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Yes, but this does not explain why the crit damage increase on headshots is so ridiculously low across all enemies armor or not. Forget dealing 50% more damage, in some of those cases it wasnt even 33%, even with crit power in the build.

Are you having fun sprouting b*llshit or what? O_O

Lets look at a few different enemies.

Minotaur : Bodyshot+crit and headshot + critical.
18&35
Increase : 17 (Almost double damage dealt)
28&39.
Increase : 11(Not even 50% bonus) => Critical headshot increase is smaller than bodyshot critical increase.

Stormvermin.
14.25 & 26.25
Increase = 12(Almost double)
24.25 & 31.5
Increase = 7.25(Not even a third in bonus) => Critical headshot increase is smaller.

Rotblood raider.
34 & 63
Increase = 29’ (almost double)
8.5 ( Armored head)
29 ( Armored head)
Increase = 20.5 (More than three times higher) => Critical headshot increase is smaller in terms of actual damage done than bodyshot but in this case its understandable given helmet.

Beastigor :
15.75
29
Increase = 13.25 (Almost double)
26.75
34.75
Increase = 8(Not even a third up) => Critical headshot increase smaller.

Spawn
18.5 & 35
Increase = 16.5 (Almost double)
28.75
39.25
Increase = 10.5(Barely more 1/3 up) = Headshot Critical increase smaller.


Do i need to go on? Especially with Fatshark having acknowledged the thread already?

It’s capped likely for balance reasons, you might notice a similar trend with the majority of weapons. Like longbow against infantry 43 body 118.25 crit/HS, 150.5 Crit+HS. Longbow against armor 34.5 body 94.5 HS 118.25 crit, 150.5 Crit + HS.

Still appears to be inconsistent though.

Bounty saltz vs spawn (Crossbow, pistols, volley)
Body = 34 & 96 =Little less than 200% extra.
Head = 58 & 120 = Little more than 100% extra

Body = 22&36 = Less than 50% extra
Head = 27&46 = ~87% extra

Body =27&54 = 100% extra
Head = 38.5 & 68 = ~88% extra

Elf vs spawn (shortbow, longbow)
Body = 18.5& 35.75 = Short of 100% extra’
Head = 28.75 & 39.25 = 73% extra

Body = 34,75 & 102 = 200%+ extra
Head = 83 & 117 = Less than 50% extra.


So yeah there might be a cap looking how crossbow compares to longbow but it still seems strange though and it doesnt solve why some enemies using the same armor type take different amounts of damage from the same attack.

Also…why would there be such a harsh cap on critical headshot damage on bosses like the spawn? I can understand saltz getting the short end of the stick here for having consistent crits but everyone getting hit makes little sense.

Especially not on Cata where bosses are so damn bulky anyway.

Oh and why would the Stormfiend critical headshot deal so little extra when the Chaos raider and Chaos warrior take so much extra? Also does not make any sense, the latter even has superarmor which the fiend does not last i heard.

…I mean, why should it though? Its not like it has a particular downside or weakness that would justify that at the present. Them being similar in terms of damage but being a bit different in terms of reload and aim is good.

If you really want to make it more realistic then the crossbow would reload significantly slower than it does but pack a similarly greater punch than the longbow does.

Elf longbow should be getting a bigger headshot/crit increase than crossbow, shouldn’t it?

Oh I see what you were going for, I was referring to overall damage, not the increase between headshot criticals and body shot criticals.
Yeah all the “small” increases in critical headshots are all on armored targets.
Something the swift bow isnt good against / designed for. Apologies that the numbers arent what you want them to be, but there needs to be some balance somewhere.

It applies to others enemies too, pretty much all of them.

It’s because crits have a different armor multiplier to represent them penetrating armor better, so crits will hit harder than headshots on armored/superamored units, but crits and headshots will deal the same damage on infantry.

As for the stormfiend, it has boss damage reduction reducing the headshot damage and critical damage boost.

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This does not apply on the beastigor though? It has a fat helmet but ignores this rule completely…the stormvermin too come to think off it. It only applies to the Chaos helm pair.

So you are saying that the stormfiend by the virtue of being a boss is exempt from the rule of criticals piercing armor notably better? Is this not kind of inconsistent? I´d buy normal shots dealing a lot less damage due to the armor but critical headshots being useless is just misleading.

Look at the rotblood raider, he takes 200%+ extra damage from a critical headshot and meanwhile Stormfiend? Takes 33% extra…forget just 100% extra which would be half but it´s actually just 33%.

A quick numbers check on his backside weakpoint also suggest damage is weird, he does take more damage there sure but on the other hand crits also do not go through well, just 30% extra there too.

And if i am not mistaken that hitbox is really bugged!?

But still, what is the point of critbuilds and precise aiming if the extra damage is silly low? Feels like shooting indiscriminately like some movie gangster is far more rewarding…

It’s not about a “helmet”, it’s about the armor type of the part you are hitting and modifiers related to it, the example with the mauler’s helmet is identical to testing with a CW because his helmet is superarmor.
What I mean is: on a fanatic a longbow charged shot will deal ( 43 dmg in the body, 118.25 HS, 118.25 crit, 150.5 Crit+HS) ( Headshot and Crit damage are identical).

On a bestigor it deals 34.5 dmg in the body, 94.5 in the head, 118.25 crit 150.5 Crit+HS (Crit damage is higher than headshot damage because of the increased crit armor multiplier)

Longbow´s a different weapon though, and i never said anything about it^^

But as for the swiftbow, You´d think a critical shot to the head would be worse than one to the knee…the latter might just end your adventuring career but the former ought to be more lethal.

So to be clear!

A powerful hit to a weakpoint ought to do notably more damage than one to something not so weak! And with that in mind i can accept the stormfiends head not getting a huge boost on a critical hit due to the armor but it does not explain why the backpack also remains exempt!

He’s a boss, an enemy meant to challenge players by not being easy to kill, so yes.

Hes neither armored nor a boss, so it makes sense why his crits are more.

So why is the swiftbow in particular gimped against him and not other bosses? Even on bodyshots the swiftbow damage is considerably lowered relative to other bosses and the only weakpoint isnt even weak.

Again, Stormfiend’s is the only monster that is armored. Rat Ogre, Bile Troll, Chaos Spawn, and Minotaur are not defined as armored units. Enemies that have armor will always negate some damage being directed at them, and with Monster modifiers they will negate more.

The only armor he has is on the head…possibly his arms too? I dont quite recall but similar to the Chaos raider at any rate in how it´s only partly armored.

But even then when you hit parts that are not armored he still negates damage as if they were, and the effect of crits penetrating that armor are way more reduced than when you hit another heavily armored target. Like we arent talking a crit bonus of 200%(chaos raider,big axe&helmet ) being hit down to 100%(boss crit reduction of 50%) but instead it´s downed all the way to 33%.

But even if you wana argue that the body is supposed to be so durable then it becomes all the more imperative that the actual weakspot on his back act as a weakspot which it does not for the shortbow.

The hitbox is awful and multiple shots just dont hit even if aimed squarely at it from a reasonable distance, the base damage boost does exist but is unimpressive all things considered and the crit damage boost is borderline nonexistent aswell. Even if you´d wana argue balance it makes no sense with those conditions.

I mean just look at the bestigor flag bearers, their heads clearly have no helmets and they take damage´d you expect there. Similarly the rotblood raiders have a helmet but no armor and take notable damage on bodyshots, and crits do penetrate that helmet to boot just as it does chaos warriors, even their superarmors.

So why is it that the stormfiend for one takes no reasonable damage anywhere? Feels like it´s forcibly hitting the shortbow and likely other weapons for no reason other than “screw them”.

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