Suggestion to the developers

Play Dark Omens on cataclysm with a slayer. I dare you, I double dare you, I double DOGGY dare you. Seriously though, It’s one thing to read suggestions and hear what everyone’s frustrated with. It’s another thing entirely to experience it for yourself. I think Dark Omens w/ slayer would give you an idea of how unbalanced the game is right now.

Few problems with Dark Omens (and legend + in general)

  1. Class imbalance. I could write an entire page on this but i’ll keep it short. Zealot outperforms Slayer at everything, Footknight is only good for banner breaking on higher difficulties. BH and Huntsman see no play in QP (not familiar with these classes, won’t comment on why). Temp health on kill is the only option for temp health unless you’re going a niche stagger build (2h hammer or shield). Certain classes do everything well (Shade w/ hagbane, Zealot w/ anything) whereas others do one thing well and suck at everything else (slayer).

  2. Beastmen deal too much damage. High damage on it’s own isn’t a big problem. When combined with fast attacks, insane range, and stagger resistance well… it’s a pretty big problem.

  3. Banners, banners, banners… and more banners. Banners on their own are fine. One banner and a horde isn’t that bad. Two banners, a horde, and literally any special spawns (they spawn in groups) is unfair. The strategy for dealing with banners is to either run to a better location, or charge in and break it ASAP. If you can’t do either of those you’re forced to fight a super tanky beastman horde. As if they weren’t bad enough already.

I know, I know. There are videos of people soloing cataclysm with bots, I understand even with all these problems it’s still “doable.” However, the average legend player isn’t that skilled. The majority of players aren’t that skilled, and a large portion of the game feels more like a chore than a fun experience. So devs, not the people who talk to the devs, but the devs themselves. I implore you to play Dark Omens w/ slayer on cata. If you can’t complete cata, try legend. Then try it again with Zealot. That should sum up the overall problems with the game right now.


THP on stagger sucks with a 2h hammer too.
It doesn’t count stagger when an enemy dies so the only time it gives you noticeable hp is if you push into a horde. Not only it’s not fun, it’s detrimental to some builds (miner’s rhythm and similar) and it’s risky as hell too, because between bugs and faster attack animations, stagger a line of enemies, the one behind that will just hit you before you can react.

EDIT: I push way less than I used to before 2.0. I even got rid of opportunist talent from my 2h hammer, took swift slaying instead :frowning:


Did you watch their Streams? Because I am pretty sure that Tim played Cataclysm - Dark Omen, with Slayer, with Dual Axes in at least one of them if not more often. Not sure if he actually completed it but to be fair he was commenting on the sideline.

As for the second part: Yes, people have repeatably and consistently beaten such situations. So like you correctly assessed the problem is the skill level of the average player in Legend.

The only problem is the spike in difficulty in any map w/ beastmen. I used to have around 80% success rate on legend in quickplay. Now even with premade groups, in any map containing a large amount of beastmen that success rate reaches around 40%.

Maybe the devs are just going for an increase in difficulty, but if that were the case, then skaven and chaos should be more in line w/ beastmen. Instead there’s this huge outlier that feels so much harder to play against.


I’m slowly adapting to beastmen myself, in high pressure situations still fall back to old - bad - muscle memory.
As far as I can tell, you cannot fight beastmen like you do skaven / chaos.
Those 2 can be stopped by one person and controlled - even if the new targeting system creates much more bleed on the flanks.
With beastmen you have to steadily give ground and whittle them down slowly because their mass pushes you out and as they are rather un-cleaveable they have to be killed almost individually and that takes too much time.
They are much more resistant to stagger also, you can push them and while skaven and chaos fall to the ground, beastmen remain standing even with full stagger and recover from it much quicker than the other 2.


I’d still argue that it’s not beastmen. It’s beastmen plus all that special spawning nonsense and bad AI director. Or at least to me its seems like that. Because fighting groups of beastmen or even hordes is fine but as soon as two or more specials are involved you are just sh*t out of luck in most cases, as you can’t focus on the crazy attacks and getting rid of specials at the same time.

Think for example of Bad omens and compare the ambush pit at the beginning with the area after that. The ambush is fine but once you get into the area with the three seperate paths things can get out of control really quickly as you have Beastmen plus an absurd amount of specials plus maybe banners plus boss trigger plus horde trigger. Beastmen would be fine if the AI director wouldn’t treat them the same as skaven or chaos…


The biggest problem I see is that sound is still borked. You can get a boss, a horde, and specials, and hear no warnings.

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What’s this slayer is bad meme I keep seeing everywhere?
I spam cata, and pretty much every slayer I see there wreck stuff. Just now I ran a few 3 man cata games with deed + twitch mode(albeit we never completely finished the map, it wasn’t that far off), and the slayer was obviously pulling the most weight.

The few games I haven’t taken the Salty spots and end up with a zealot, they are almost always underperforming (which doesn’t surprise me at all tbh).

As for BH (I can’t speak for huntsman), he’s by a large margin his strongest career option of you ask me. I say this of course as someone that spams more or less only BH, so I am of course biased, but judging by my success rate, and in general performance in cata games, I like to think I am right here.

FK only good for banner breaking? FK is downright broken as a bully machine. He’s literally unkillable outside of specials and completely trivializes cata runs by himself.

No offense OP, but considering you say that the average player isn’t skilled enough to do ‘X’, could it be that your own skill clouds your judgement in regards to class balance? Because from my perspective, BW, FK, BH, Slayer and WW seems to be the clear winners in career strength.

You are right about beastmen though. Way overtuned, in conjunction with the truckton of ‘features’ (bugs) this game offers, makes them a god damn slog to fight.

Hey Lenny. It’s funny people lead with “no offense” and end up directly insulting you. Nevertheless here’s my response:

Yes I’m no extraordinary vermintide 2 player. I may not even be considered “good” in your opinion. However, in the legend games I’ve completed, which is well over 200, I’ve performed pretty well compared to everyone else. Not saying I blew them out of the water, but I’m pretty consistent in my damage taken and special kill stats, which in my opinion are pretty important. So, in short, I’d say that my skill more or less reflects the average legend player based off those 200+ successful runs.

One thing I hate about responses like this is they make claims without providing an explanation. FK is literally unkillable and trivializes cata runs by himself. How does he go about doing this. Is there something he does better besides boss/chaos warrior CC or banner breaking that Merc Kruber doesn’t?

As for bounty hunter, as I said in my post I don’t play this class. I’m just noting that I never see BH in any of my legend games. This month alone I’d say I’ve seen around 2 bounty hunters total. That’s not too many. In fact, I’ve seen more huntsman than bounty hunter as it stands. Although, I wouldn’t consider him “the strongest class.” I’d say if we’re looking at the top 1% or whatever, WHC far outclasses him in terms of utility and potential (50% increased headshot damage w/ any weapon is pretty big). Not sure how shade and BH compare on boss killing, but I’ve seen shade do some insane damage as well, and she’s not bad vs specials either.

This brings me to the most prominent point of this discussion: the slayer. You’ve seen slayers wreck face, I’ve seen the exact opposite in Legend. Maybe in cata the meta is different, but I’d assume “strong classes” stay relatively consistent through cata and legend. So perhaps people who choose to play slayer in cata are just really, really good at slayer? I mean, it’s not like he has many advantages in melee over Zealot. The only ones that I can think of are 2h hammer usage and faster attack speed with ult. This is assuming Zealot doesn’t ult though. Aside from that he has worse generalist weapons, no special sniping ability w/ 2 weapons, less health, less THP gain, and (variable) more DR with a conditional skill. I can’t see how statistically the slayer outperforms the Zealot, even in his supposed nice -> melee.

So I’d invite you to explain how these slayers were wrecking face. For instance what weapon combo did they use? What did they kill well (hordes, elites, specials LOL, bosses)? And how did they manage their health pools.

PS: You can make a point without being passive aggressive.

It is not an insult, it is a completely legitimate question, made in an entirely neutral way. Stop trying to be a victim.

I don’t make a full explanation detailing every class mentioned, because it would take up too much space, but here goes since you asked for it.

FK is Godly because he is a bully machine and unkillable outside of specials, as previously mentioned. He can push an absurd amount of enemies at a never ending rate, regardless of their size or resistance. He is also absurdly tanky, because of his huge production of temp health, freeing up barksin to protect him against burst, aka specials.

BH has near 100% uptime on hunter whenever it matters, which is a much bigger damage boost than the 50% headshot damage. He can delete large amounts of specials mid horde, and provide uncontested boss damage, which also carries way more utility than lets say shade, because of it’s range and CD reduction. His only ‘weakness’ are hyperstacked beastmen, which ironically is almost every careers ‘weakness’, beacuse of it’s inherent bull nature (hence why shield characters are so strong now).

The slayers i’ve played with have had varied weapon combinations, but then again, you only really need one good combination to be considered a strong career. Not varied /=/ weak. And yeah, the last slayer I played with had no issues having a huge amount of special kills, because the throwing axes are wicked good. Slayer has crazy mobility, which directly translates to survivability as well. Two handed hammer/dual wield hammer both deals with hordes, bosses, armored, you name it well. Two handed hammers especially if you q switch. You can even macro the throwing axes to toss them at an absurd pace if needed.

Lastly, my original post werent passive aggressive at all. My bet is that you saw it that way, because someone dared even ask the question that it just possibly might be on your end.

Stopped reading at foot knight only being useful for banners. If that’s your opinion it’s hard to take anything else you say seriously.

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