For some reason, I would say the majority of people I’ve encountered are running the map as fast as humanly possible, missing pickups and and the worst offence of all - never looking back and leaving people behind. The only exception would be Damnation, where players have figured out it’s not how to reliably succeed.
Am I missing something? Why the rush? Are you not here to play the game and enjoy it? Do you not want to find a couple of extra crafting materials for your current or next weapon? I literally cannot see the benefit of running the map from start to finish at a pace that leaves you 0% stamina for the entire thing. Usually this results in the speed runner dying ahead, or the furthest behind getting overwhelmed. It’s a team game.
So please. Stop speed running, consider your team mates.
At this point I’m pretty convinced that Heresy is actually harder than Damnation.
On damnation, the team work is in general pretty good. People are quick to group up and stay together when things get hairy and play in a team well supporting each other. Baring an insane AI spawn situation or the occasional YOLO, runs are consistently successful for me.
Heresy is a complete cluster gak, dumpster fire by comparison. People are all over the place with absolutely no cohesion. It’s the Wild West and much harder as a result.
Lol I noticed this too - there’s no real difference or even a potentially higher rate of success in Damnation, so you might as well attempt Damnation. It’s a shame. I get people want to try harder difficulties, but I find it hard to believe people aren’t running off on their own purposefully.
The other thing that if you’re trying to get plasteel, you actually get about the same for failing damnation halfway through as you do from competing heresy. They really need to increase the plasteel rates for heresy and below.
Damnation took a noticeable hit in quality after the reward+mat bump update.
Honestly the solution for those that just keep brainlessly running off head is a votekick, it’s the only way they’ll learn.
By the 4th-5th time boot 'em and spare the team further aggravation; the community isn’t strengthened by rewarding bad behavior.
I like to call them “DUBYAS” because all they know is to press the W key and nothing else.
There was a small window for me where I was actually completing damnations runs regularly with people who played tactically and intelligently but not today. The “DUBYA” scrubs ruined it today. Every match was someone mindlessly running forward to aggro mobs when we haven’t even finished clearing the current area. They also have zero situational awarness when it come to leaving a teammate behind. All they know is they have to hold down that DUBYA key.
You´ve to understand that the game has 2 different enemy-spawns, fixed and timed ones. So going fast trough the map will increase your win-changes by miles. You won´t waste extra ressources or lose health against “unneccessary” spawns.
You can observate it pretty easily on high int maps, where poeple waste on a couple of permanently respawning adds until the timed spawns appear and set you under pressure, so you´ll lose more health etc… and find you staying on the same spot for 5 minutes.
And especially if a timed spawn is gone, you should go for a huge push to get ride of the fixed spawns and to reach the next event. Otherwise fixed and timed spawns might overlap at some point and that´s mostly what poeple claim to be “The AI suddenly decides that the mission ends with its spawns.”
While a buggy director might happen, it´s mostly someone who pulled the next room and / or found a trigger for fixed spawns on top of a timed horde.
It´s just not worth it. Unless there are books to collect for the weeklies, you want to go fast through the mission because of the reason i claimed above.
Searching for materials in each corner of bigger map-tiles is also highly inefficient. Instead of wasting like 10 minutes per mission to do so, you could easily play a 3rd or 4th mission with the “safed” time and you´ll automatically find more materials maybe even in less time following the perfect path.
Yes “real rusher” exists and it´s stupid to be that kind of player. But it´s also stupid staying behind and searching for stuff just to hold the group and overall mission-progress back for 10 plasteel or something?!
As been said, going fast to the mission is better in general. Some decision-making is still needed like “don´t push if a boss appears, because you might activate fixed spawns” or so, but in general the whole group will be more efficient and win more games doing so together.
Sure there’s a pacing to this game as there is in VT, as you said the time vs static, mindlessly running ahead is not efficient and neither is lagging behind way too much.
VT2 seemed to punish you more for moving too slow compared to DT, I’m guessing by design to accommodate pickups.
That being said it’s not hard to maintain a good efficient quick pacing and collect the vast majority of the crafting mats as well, and it’s typically safer for most groups to lag behind some than to rush ahead mindlessly puling more than the team can handle and then also having to deal with timed hordes and specials.
If you’re going for collection efficiency/hour sure, moving at a faster will bump it up, but you have to take into account people’s IRL responsibilities and squeezing in the extra run or two for max efficiency may not be feasible given time constraints.
What OP is talking about are the mindless rushers who put undue pressure on the whole team, especially the last person who may be just a step behind, this often results in a cascade failure and often a wipe.
These mindless rushers are just W+left click drones who typically have zero situational awareness or grasp the mid-to-high level concepts, or even the fundamentals in these types of games.
Far too often their behavior is left unchecked, hopefully with the recent and stupidly long overdue vote-kick changes, some of it will be curtailed.
To be fair, all of this is just as true (if not more so) for those who go very slow.
A bunch of ranged units ahead? Going slow will cause them to spread out, take cover and start blasting at you.
Horde spawn sound? Going slow often means that you are stuck in a bad position, when you could have run a few meters ahead and got into a very easily defendable location.
Final event (example: smelter complex)? Going slow means that you have to deal with many more enemies. Your teammates will constantly have to endanger themselves to look out for you and to save you from your own mistakes.
Constant trickling spawn of a few poxwalkers from a door right in front of an elevator/airlock? Staying there to kill them all, is completely useless and wastes everyone’s time.
Pace is important. Do not rush ahead blindly, but also do not stay behind either.
While progressing through regular parts of a map (non event sections), those who are at the front, have to clear out a bunch of enemies, while those who lag behind a bit, do not really have anything holding them back. It is definitely not necessary to lag behind the teammates all the time, in order to pick up (almost) all of the crafting mats.
Rushing ahead, is not always great but can be quite useful in some situations, and allow the entire group to progress faster and easier.
Lagging behind all the time, is of no use for the team at all, and usually a sign of lacking awareness. Those are the same people, for which you tag a medipack 10 times, just for them to walk right past it, without picking it up (although they are the only person with empty inventory space).
If i had to choose, which one is worse, i would go with the stragglers.
Stragglers hold up the team, often provide no value and make the entire group go back (or split, which often leads to wipes) to pick them up, if they die to 2 stray poxwalkers. You constantly have to look out for them and pay much more attention to what is going on behind you.
Someone rushes ahead and does a good job, it is a win for the entire team.
Often times, the team can support them from range, while closing the gap.
If they rush and die, at least you are going in that direction anyway.
Interesting discussion, and I see the merits of both moving fast and measured pacing. I’m glad I found this thread because I came to the forums today feeling rather puzzled at something I’ve just witnessed, and this discussion somewhat explains it.
I think what’s important here is for players to be mindful that there is no one specific playstyle or pacing. I had a game earlier with a preacher that was getting very agitated about the rest of the group moving too slowly, and yet they got themselves killed by rushing ahead at least twice while the rest of us were largely fine and the mission was an overall success. Personally I’m quite happy to adapt to any specific playstyle of the rest of the group, but in this case there had been absolutely no communication whatsoever until about halfway through when the complaining started.
Regarding the point about fixed and timed spawns, of course these are an unavoidable hazard, but to assume that the only solution to deal these is to charge through the mission as fast as possible without actually mentioning this to anyone else is foolish. I feel this is especially pertinent because I personally main Psyker, and if there’s one thing Psykers are particularly good at it’s crowd control (with the appropriate build, of course). I’ve faced those stacked spawns numerous times, and although they can be challenging, they are not impossible to deal with. All players, especially solo queuers, need to remember to COMMUNICATE WITH THE TEAM.
Indeed I would argue that it’s in the spirit of PvE games that the team is likely going to face absurdly unfair fights, especially if you’re playing on damnation and/or any of the brilliantly ridiculous modifiers like hi-intensity or specialist gauntlet. The key is not to make every effort to avoid these fights, rather it’s to learn how to beat them. Personally I love having a good brawl with flamers, gunners, ogryns, and half a dozen mutants zooming around the arena, because it’s all the sweeter to come out of it still in one piece.
Noone said it would be the only solution. But you do increase your chances on a win immense by moving fast-paced (not blindly rushing) instead of wasting time on whatever you believe you can waste it.
Dunno what to tell them… “Please guys lets hurry so we get less spawns?”
Something like that?
While i agree communication can be helpful… the most just ignore it, while others permanently scream every sheet in their microphon.
If poeple jump into heresy+, i personally expect some basic game-knowledge. And there are already dozens of events teaching you “Don´t waste your time.” before, so i would count this into basic-knowledge aswell.
It´s not about avoiding bad spawns, it´s about avoiding more spawns than needed.
You´ll meet bad spawns so or so. It´ll happen, there is no chance you can be sure if you pull a room, that a timed horde + specialists won´t be a thing.
But you can be sure that you´ll probably engage the double amount of specials and hordes if you chill your nuts and need a hour instead of just 30 minutes for the run. In the end it´s just more or less wasted time and highly ineffective if we really want to talk about rewards and grinding materials.
It might be irrelevant if you enjoy the gameplay anyway, but i personally do not enjoy playing a “searching simulator” or waiting for that last guy until he checked every corner i already run through for the 3rd time.
The game isn´t old, but there are already more than enough players with a proper map-knowledge who know like 95% of all book-locations, etc… And normally you´ll mention fast if he´s just some blind rusher or someone with a handful of experience and skill you should follow.
Fair points all around. My average mission time is around the 30min mark, and I’d just considered that was normal. I’ve never had a game that lasted as long as an hour! That just sounds totally absurd, and I completely understand why anyone would be getting irate if a mission was dragged out that long just because someone insisted on scouring the entire map for materials. Hey, I’m a sucker for collectibles, but I’m not going to screw the entire team while I go on a jolly scavenger hunt on my own.
Ofc 1 hour will be an exception and rare case. But in general there are quite often 40+ minutes run, because poeple are either bad and die permanently or lack completely behind. I´ve had enough guys recentaly exactly being like “I´m searching for materials.”, not even observing the team a little bit, where it already pathed trough etc…
And the most just don´t get when high int is exactly what it is and stuck like 3 minutes at one door killing the endless 1-2 adds spawning there. Or you gonna lose end-events because poeple focus on killing those endless hordes instead of focusing on the objectives.
No real arguments here, TDLR: I think most of us agree keeping a good pace is important.
Ooof don’t get me started on those people, I think you bring up a good point about the lack of awareness and its impact on pacing. I’ve had to leave quite a few medicrates behind that people just casually strolled by.
This, more than VT2, is a game that’s more enjoyable with regular buddies. The pacing and awareness alone make for a more enjoyable game and you can enjoy and seek the higher challenges the game throws at you rather than artificial barriers thrown up by brain dead team play.
Seriously, if you search for materials, it take maybe 3-5 more minutes on the entire mission.
Where i agree with you is that you don’t need to spend more time than needed in events. Where I agree with you is that rushing can make easier the mission, as I already did it by the past.
But rushing / trying to go fast, give often less than 50% of the materials of the mission. I won’t search for all, but yes sure, I don’t want to do 4 missions to get same amount of materials that I could get in one (thanks RNG).
Hopefully, soon enough I won’t care of the materials (once I have every weapon I want… and it should be in few weeks). But, the two worlds can work together. You can search the materials and stop rushing without waiting others, and you have to always check at the team.
What the OP describes is the players that rush without waiting others and complain after that they died cause noone could follow them.
But, sometimes it is better to retreat a little instead of rushing and aggro lot of enemies.
This is the most important point. In events, you have to focus on completing the objectives… On this I totally agree…
OP, none of the people doing that will check this forum, or any other related social media. they’re too busy getting kills and then going to the next game when they get downed.
Rando vets shooting at one enemy a mile and a half away and making every enemy with a gun in the zip code aware of your teams presence are absolutely more likely to cause a wipe than anything else in this game.
