It’s one thing having a viable playstyle, which is effective/good at a certain parts of the game. Being required to have a shield cuck on your team in cata, who’s sole purpose is to hold right click and tap left click for the majority of a run, is uber bad design.
I agree. Cataclysm is there for those of vermintide mastery. So many elite players have been playing Onslaught, deathwish, and even onslaught deathwish in Moded Vermintde Realm because Legend was a joke. Leave cata hard, that is the point.
I like it too, but I remember quite vividly having stated a long while back already that the whole debacle about “shields” and “blocking” is precisely this: It is not a very engaging playstyle (for the majority) and simply a very one-dimensional, plain boring concept for a hero to be built around. I mean, with shields, you at least haf the shield strike and the very good shove. But a block-centered shield build? Or any build focused around blocking and “defense”? That would be: Standing around, holding M2, occasionally pushing, while everyone else is having fun slaughtering stuff.
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Should you be able to solo (with bots) cataclysm difficulty? Thats a question for discussion. I did manage to do this and strangely enough it was a first attempt.
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You got a bugged run with no Beastmen. Of course it was easy. Runs like that were easy even on the closed beta tests.
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And that’s the dam issue currently. Its absolutely ridiculous you can run maps such as skittergate 10 times easier just because its guaranteed you don’t get any beastman spawns.
Cata currently has 2 difficulties one which is pretty reasonably clearable and other which is absolutely bollocks.
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I got whatever run I got. I didn’t code the game, only play it.
Let me guess. You got the mod for improved bots, which just got released, optimized all their gear and placed them on the tankiest/aoe/support versions of their careers, while carrying horde clearing weapons and 1 hit special kill ranged. This essentially makes the bots arguably equal (if not better) than a lot of players, because they aimbot specials, avoid backstabs and other shenanigans (bugs) because the force is with them and can deal with hordes, while constantly sticking to their shepherd like glue (which is the the facto requirement for cruising through cata). And like already pointed out, no beastmen.
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Yeah, I agree. It’s the main issue affecting balancing right now. The Beastmen have way too many “gameplay features” that make them extremely overbearing to fight compared to the other factions. That and Wargors can still take things from zero to overtuned nightmare in absolutely no time. Especially if you don’t have a hard counter to the banners.
Also: that run had no bosses aside from the barn dweller.
Edit: and what Lenny said, lol
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No the bot mod was not updated at the time of doing this run.
Obviously the bots are running optimised builds, are all 35, full reds etc. Why would they not be?
Read my post, this is to discuss should it be possible, not “look at me, how great I am that I did this solo”. So please lay off the salt.
That’s precisely the problem. Beastmen are a fun addition, but they have the strongest… well, everything (almost). Their infantry has high health, high mass, fast attacks, RIDICILOUS reach and absolutely ludicrous damage. Their special is the most dangerous special by far: super-armour, high health, high damage by itself and an ability with an insanely huge AoE, a very strong effect that is completely unlimited on how many units it has an effect on, is incredibly difficult and risky to remove, you cannot “run away” from it or otherwise “evade” its effect, since he can pick it up again, you have every little way to dispatch the wargor before it deploys, it has an effect ON THE MONSTER and there are so many spots where the banner is simply a run-ender because you cannot reach it - and then there’s usually two of them.
Beastmen have also arguably the strongest boss: it is fast, it deals huge damage and has a block-piercing attack that almost incaps you from full health.
The only remedy is that their elite is medicore in itself: Its charge can easily be interrupted and anticipated, it can be dangerous, no question, but not in itself - that comes from the fact that it usually spawns in large numbers and you can get perma-charged.
Their infantry has also the longest reach, either by spearmen, archers or sniper-headbutts.
All ignoring the fact that the beastmen are also buggy as all heck.
The key lies in bringing the beastmen more in tune with the other two factions. I do like that they feel different, but the difference is mainly unfair challenge.
My suggestions would be, apart from reducing beastmen damage (there is absolutely no reason from a balance perspective why beastmen should have the highest mass AND the fastest attacks AND the highest damage while having medium-high health) and mass a bit (and fixing their bugs): balancing the Wargor. Reduce the effect a bit and the radius ALOT. Make it that no more than one of them can spawn at a time and/or give the banner deploy a longer windup paired with an audio cue (let the wargor raise the banner in triumph while letting out a loud howl to announce its presence). Make it that if he picks it up again that he either cannot redeploy it within 10 seconds (which, paired with the windup it should have in general, should give you a fighting chance to dispatch it). When the banner is destroyed, ALL beastmen currently under its effect should get knocked down. Last but not least: Give the Wargor a new model.
Of course, you don’t need all of the above to make it more in tune with everything else. I am also somewhat fine with the minotaur being the strongest monster (lore-wise, minotaurs are, after all, absolute forces of nature with an insatiable hunger for human flesh). But some of that stuff needs to be done, not only for balance, but for being generally more in tune with the game’s overall mechanics. I mean, warpfire throwers and rattlings have windup time and can be outmaneauvred, they have time in between their attacks (especially gunner) that allow you to reposition and engage them. The Wargor has nothing of that. He just puts down the banner and then it’s gg.
I do talk the point, my very first reply did. You apparently couldn’t handle it, which made you strawman and talk about something completely unrelated, because I guess you felt it invalidated your run or something.
I never claimed it was impossible either
No one accused you of it, so I don’t know why you are making it out to be that way. Ironic you would call my perception twisted.
You got the run, and I explained why you did and why it was possible with bots, hence I talked the point. I advice you to carefully read posts in the future.
Try doing it with a map that contains beastmen, where a boss spawns, without 3 bigboi tankbots(BM sienna, BH, whatever) etc etc. This entire combination is what makes it possible with bots.
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You “advice” me. Ok, sure. I advise you to take some English classes.
This topic is temporarily closed for at least 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.
Let’s keep it civil guys…
Cata is still pretty unclear-able for the vast majority of players. It’s very hard. Meanwhile you have other players doing hyper twitch and deeds on it via the QP bug. You have some players who find even that as not enough and will go back to the modded realm for DWON.
So, everyone is going to have a different perspective. I’d say Cata is current in a good spot. And they can always release a toggle option for Cata 2 or 3. Which is currently only in the high level weaves.
Also, once all the “features” of the beastmen get tweaked and smoothed out. It will help out a lot.
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I’ll Open this for now, let’s keep it civil. If you guys manage to get it closed on your own again via flags, it’s locked.
This topic is temporarily closed for at least 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.
Err dont know if u play an other kind of cataclysm, but “not big deal” and 2 Bots+2 Players…"… cant imagine that. Bots are way too weak and die too fast on Cata. Legend might be still playable and winnable with Bots only. But will try out that days and see.
Stagger change was definately a step in the right direction, even or especially for Cata. Fight feels much fairer (especially for low HP Chars like Shade, which had no fun before) and the hero stronger --> definately more fun! And its just slightly easier than in Beta, so no reason of thinking it would be too easy now.
I agree to the felt reduction of ambient elites (@se1z) and if so, it was not a good step to take - will consider this these days.
Checked…no reduction noticeable, numbers are randomly differing.
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