I just want to get some feedback on this from Fatshark
Note: I played Beta 2 and of course the pre-release beta so my observation is based on those 2 comparing with the full release version.
I played a dozen of Cataclysm games yesterday at full release and this opinion isn´t based off of a couple of runs so I made sure RNG wouldn´t favour me but it feels like the amount of ambient elites has been rolled back by a big margine at full release.
I don´t know why this decision was made, maybe because of frame rate issues?
Cataclysm feels abit anticlimatic now.
The smothering amount of elites was what made Cataclysm fun and challenging before the full release and challenging.
As far as I can tell the horde amount and enemy hp level still correspends to cataclysm difficulty or atleast it feels like it.
I was really looking forward to this level of difficulty at full release because it punishes positioning mistakes so much harder than now.
Should we push forward or fall back? In the Beta and Pre-order version your decision in that very moment was what could decide whether you succeed or fail the run.
Right now to be honest positioning has been somewhat decreased in importance to an extend.
I mean sure you still need to position yourself and assign roles to teammates if you get a beastmen horde in combination with a boss but that´s about the only challenging situation left right now.
I get it you can´t please everyone in terms of difficulty level but this feels weird having played beta 2 and pre-release beta it takes away abit of what made cataclysm interesting to me.
Not saying I still don´t enjoy it but you get the idea.
I am very aware that you can´t please everyone with the difficulty level but Cataclysm was supposed to be for the top 1% if I am not mistaken.
Can anyone confirm this or am I just imagining things and been favoured by RNG?
Positioning decisions are often made upon insufficient information, and that means there’s a huge random factor involved. If we punish people too much for such decisions, the whole difficulty becomes a lottery even for v. good players. I know that some people will cope well even with insane difficulty spikes, but we should also remember about people who are only “good enough” for this difficulty, unless we want just a few people to ever play this mode.
Fair enough but there are few counter points to be made
Cataclysm was advertised as the difficulty for the top of the crop and barely doable in quickplay with randoms
If you feel like Cataclysm is difficulty for you, join discord or get a team going and improve upon eachothers timings, positioning and knowledge to make it doable
Cataclysm shouldn´t be as forgiving as Legend in terms of bad decision making which goes back to point 2
Also I disagree with positioning being made upon insufficient information, the complete opposite is the case.
You choose safe position in order to reduce randomness and that is the whole point of good and bad positioning.
Cataclysm should absolutely be for people being on a level of knowledge that Legend can´t satisfy anymore and nothing less.
If you join Cataclysm it is expected that you know about boss triggers, common special spawn locations, common item locations and the most common safe routes in which case and is the counterpoint to your post about positioning being based upon insufficient information.
And it is. I think it needs to make events harder and balanced (in a sense that currently some are very easy other are much harder… it’s not balanced) But aside from that, you sure need top few % players to do it without getting rekt 10 times or something like that. And that is without deeds/mutators or books.
Already did all of the maps and it doesn’t look any easier too me, from the beta 13.
People can’t even do QP Legend I tried it over weekend, thinking I will test weird builds, got rekt 2 time times and gave up (nobody on the team, did anything, people died to slave rats) I’m not used to soloing Chaos Spawn, horde of beastmen and multiple bannerbois.
To be fair I have only played quickplay cataclysm since beta and if you get competent players that are willing to listen to criticism and change things up it is very doable in quickplay
Yes you get a few wipes here and there but that isn´t important to me it is still fun and challenging even more than a 4 stack team
Yea, but who is QPing to Cata, it is not the noobs, it’s the hardcore guys who don’t have dedicated teams. You’re not doing QP with 3 other guys who got 100 hours in the game.
Depends really I have seen alot of stubborn people who are unwilling to accept certain mechanics that are a must in order to succeed.
Some people are just hopping into Cata because they want to know what it looks like and quit right when they die
You often can’t tell which position is “safe” and which isn’t as long as you don’t know what is coming for you. Which again means - it’s random. Super-good position cam be a deathtrap if gas rat spawn out of view and starts lobbing globes. Game always has to somewhat forgiving when it comes to positioning, brcause there are plenty of random factors that you can’t really foresee. You may only count on something haplening or not. But in fact you don’t have control over them. So to certain extent people can play it safe, but you made it sound like 1 mistake should end in a wipe, which is absurd, since what is right and what is wrong is often impossible to foresee.
Of course there is no absolutely secure and safe position but there are as previously stated relatively safe positions.
There are very well written guides for that just to give you an example, choose a position that is open wedge shaped _/ such as this or an L-shape such as this I_ .The main reason behind this is so you can kite along either side of the wall if density gets to high or specials interrupt your horde clear.
I think you misinterpreted my statement about 1 mistake being a wipe.
I was refering to the ambient elite density being higher in beta than the full release, which is just an observational thought not a fact. In any case it felt like beta cataclysm was punishing mistakes harder than the full release in the case that because of aforementioned elite density a positional mistake can cause a wipe.
For example if you get a boss on convocation of decay in the tunnels at the beginning of the map a bad decision would be to fight a boss right there for obvious reasons.
The correct move there would be to move to the drop down as quickly as possible because you have more space to move there.
In the beta as I made my statement due to the elite density being higher, which again is subjective in any case lets say you moved to the dropdown before the beta and assume there are tons of elites waiting for you there (6monks, mauler, aso) which can cause a massive problem in the mix with a boss.
The dozens of Cataclysm games I played yesteday there were no elites around or almost none, not as many as in the beta at least which would mean drop or not the punishment for positioning isn´t as severe because of less threats.
I tried it over weekend, thinking I will test weird builds, got rekt 2 time times and gave up (nobody on the team, did anything, people died to slave rats)