HA, I’ll be more gentle in the future XD
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No items below 300 for lvl 30 characters was the change. Old artificial rarity is probably still in place. Even with normal odds though I feel this is unacceptable. A 1 in 80 Chance to get the best roll, then roll again for stat distribution, roll again for perks, roll again for perk levels, roll again for blessings, roll again for blessings rarity. 2 out of these four must not be useless or your weapon is gimped.
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This is the thing. All the RNG on top of RNG is what is just totally silly. It’s not like there are only 4 or 5 things in each round of RNG either. There’s like dozens in some instances. It’s just too much imo.
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@Axehilt I appreciate where you’re coming from, but as others have voiced, the RNG is real (I rolled a level 291 as a level 30 character)…feels bad, man!
I just bought 32 Lasguns for funzies with the following results:
Lowest Rating: 291
Highest Rating: 370 ( got 2 of these)
Mediian Rating: 335
Of these,
- 7 were between 355-370
- 12 were 330-348
- 6 were 322-329
- 6 were 304-315
- 1 was 291
This cost me about 254,400 credits (294k, less the 40k I recouped from selling back the rejects). It takes me about ~25 minutes (on average) to clear a Heresy/Damnation mission, and I get 20/26k credits a run, call 23k averaged out, so it would take me about 13 missions or ~4.5 hours to get 2 level 370 “Profane” grade weapons…
Then they have to be consecrated to Transcendant grade (call it a couple thousand plasteel and a few hundred diamondine), then you gotta pick the lesser of two weevils on the Perks and Blessings you wanna swap out…
…and the real kick in the jibblies is having to do that on every…single…character; because no shared resources why??
These problems didn’t exist in VT2 - gear and resources were cheap and plentiful, and as a result, customizing your setup turned out to be a great part of the metagame, and I looked forward to the same thing in Darktide.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy to at least be able to play Profane Roulette (as opposed to just waiting for stuff to show up in the store), and least we can swap out blessings (although it’s stupid that the same blessing on multiple weapon types has to be acquired for each weapon type, and isn’t shared across characters), but I digress…
TL;DR, I would concede that a level 330 item is objectively good enough, but who wants that when you can potentially get a level 380?
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Perhaps the current Crafting system stands to be further improved down the line because FS might want to add to it every patch as a form of content drip-feeding.
Okay fair enough. I think FS is still testing the waters (this community/reddit/steam reviews) to see how tolerable their crafting is and adjusting accordingly. Mind you there’s nothing stopping FS from implementing additional functions to the crafting system later down the line (sales/blessing or perk incresed droprate/crafting discounts) etc to incentivize engagement and playstyle mix-up to make it more interesting.
I mean if the 360 is good enough to take me to Damnation then I guess I can live with it. But if not, well then Nurgles got me by the balls. I’m probably not going be good enough to break into Damnation without “meta and perfect” weapons.
Although correct me if I’m wrong but I believe he was talking about “Functionally Perfect” weapons in which they technically aren’t perfect but in game function as well as a perfectly rolled weapon so that’s me just giving him the benefit of the doubt on that.
Sounds like something FS realistically implements down the line. I think this would appease everyone who wants to make worthwhile and unique weapons. Hopefully FS balances current blessings so players wont instantly trash one when it gives an undesirable combination. Not opposed to trying out off-meta combos.
If Fatshark hasn’t implemented any RNG protection, then what @CommanderJ says about people having horrible luck could be a reality and it’s a scary thought. This may come to a matter of allowed tolerance. Some players may encounter the same or worse situation more often but are able to tolerate the ebb and flow of the RNG. Others might stop at the first 5 failures.
So it might not be a matter of engaging or failing to engage but rather a fail until success only levied by how much trash you’re willing to spend time slogging through and how much resources you’re willing to sacrifice for a chance to roll a winner.
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Nobody’s ever said there isn’t RNG, I’ve just repeatedly pointed out exactly the reality you detailed: that you got 7 viable candidates out of 32 purchases. So then you just carefully upgrade the best of them (and bail out if you get bad perk/blessing on the first two upgrades, and replace the worst of the two perk/blessings by the end).
And yeah depending on the weapon some of those lower rolls can be good enough to be candidates too.
Afterwards, most weapons have good enough blessings that you’re reasonably likely to get a good one in 1-2 candidates. But I do think the game needs a Blessings pass to fix a bunch of the really awful blessings that exist, so that there aren’t really any “dud” rolls (apart from that first perk roll; and hey, even those could change I guess: they could have perks that don’t add a lot to a certain weapon not appear on that weapon and they could balance the underperforming perks).
So then if all blessings/perks available are good, you wouldn’t really have any bad rolls on the first 2 weap upgrades, and after the final weapon upgrade you’d simply steer it towards your preference (you’d pick which of the blessings/perks you wanted to keep, and roll the others).
You can do most of that right now of course, it’s just there definitely are some perks/blessings to avoid. And also you can still roll T2 blessing occasionally (which I often bail from, but not always if it’s something that works really well on the weapon).
Keep in mind his comments have often been about getting perfect weapons with 2 specific blessings/perks in mind, so he just want something way beyond what the system is ever likely to provide.
I will say I have seen way more 370 BS weapons for sale since the update but my EG have gone form 500 + power level running heresy to 400-450 with bad base stats from damnation.
I’ve made a lot of decent guns and just hit a wall with sabers where I only get uncanny strike or whatever the rending blessing is called, riposte or precognition. 16 swords in so far. I guess I’m not saying the magic words and holding my mouse upside down when I click ‘consecrate’ the right way. The infallible science says I should have everything I wanted.
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If we define a good item as 370+, and assume the probability between 280 and 380 is flat, then it takes 69 rolls of brunt’s shop to have above a 50% chance of getting a good item. Items at Brunt’s shop are about 10k average, so that’s 690k to have above a 50% chance of getting a good item. That is 35 completed damnation runs, or 92 completed malice runs. Even with a 370+ item it still depends on the stat distribution, so there is still a chance you won’t want to waste crafting resources upgrading them. That is only above 50% chance, so you would expect half of the players to have a worse experience than that. Tell us again how skill helps with this situation at all?
Thinking that you have some sort of skill at rng is a common psychological bias, you might want to look into that.
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Well that seems unnecessarily high for most weapons. There are some where every attribute is fairly meaningful, but I’ve hard-carried Damnation Hi-Intensity runs with 340ish crafted weapons because I knew a couple of the attributes simply weren’t important but the remaining ones were great rolls.
I mean my position from Day 1 of people complaining about this is they’re Hyper Obsessed with perfect items, to a degree not justified by the actual stats, and that’s responsible for a ridiculous amount of the criticism of the system.
It’s really sad too, because there are many valid criticisms of the system (like it’s great to hear a lot of people complaining specifically about some weapons having fewer viable blessings than others, because yeah we absolutely need a Blessings Pass to improve that!). Those valid criticisms get lost when I have to constantly correct people for criticizing things that just don’t matter (like fixating on perfect rolled items)
Skill mostly relates to how you approach strategically spending your materials once you have candidates.
But as I just mentioned above, skill is also clearly involved in identifying which weapons are great candidates as a 340 roll, because you know the low attributes on that item just don’t matter. You know, things like penetration on Bull Butcher where no matter how high that thing gets the BB isn’t going to deal good damage to armored enemies.
So it’s not psychological bias at all. I just listed two discrete ways that player skill influences how you approach the system. Players with skill will navigate the problems better than those without (because those without are likely to do what you’re doing: only caring about 370+ items, even though that doesn’t matter).
So yeah your post is the perfect example of what I’m talking about.
Sure, some weapons have multiple dump stats, most don’t though. Perhaps the people having a rough time aren’t using weapons with multiple dump stats? Some weapons have very small but high value blessing pools, giving you great odds at good upgrades, others do not though and are far more painful to pursue. Your assumption that everyone giving negative feedback is ‘doing it wrong’ rather than just being unlucky or facing worse odds because of the type of weapon they want to use is kinda dumb, not sure how else to put that.
I suspect most of the complaints are from people wanting to upgrade to an improved item, rather than just get the first ‘good enough’ one. Do you really think the current system is fine for the amount of effort required to improve a ‘good enough’ item into something you’re actually proud of using? Some people will get lucky in their first 10 attempts to upgrade, some might even skip to a god item they’ll never replace on their first few attempts, but statically most people aren’t going to do either of those things.
Not thinking you suffer from psychological bias is also a fairly common psychological bias, maybe look into that one too.
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Sure that could be true. It would shift the bell curve up (of how many rolls it takes for 1 candidate grey of a weapon).
But honestly I think it’s the fixation with perfection that’s mainly driving things.
Yes, although that’s partially driven by how hard it was to even get a semi-decent weapon prior to the crafting update.
My characters regularly just play with the new weapons to have fun with them for 2-3 missions afterwards, and then before I know it I have a fairly decent chunk of ordos sitting around to dump into greys of a new weapon type, so the next weapon tends to be fast too.
I think the Combat Axe took longest so far, since I had multiple failed versions of it before finally getting a good blessing. (ie multiple candidates ended up with very bad blessings or perks, and I had to use a new candidate grey to start over.) But that process overall was started yesterday, so it’s not like it took long overall (maybe 7 hours playtime as my slowest weapon upgrade?)
Well that weapon is more than sufficient for smooth Damnation runs, and until they add a new difficulty there isn’t really a need for a better weapon than that.
Let’s maybe pump the brakes on the “psychological bias” thing, given I was able to explain two separate, specific ways player skill interacts with the systems (and you weirdly ignored them both to imply it’s still just a bias).
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That just make u keep playing… that all to it. If we are being honest here u dont need that TOPKEK gear to beat damnation HI, some decent gear 330+ with at least one usefull blessing will be enough to beat it. And half of the guys in that topic are crying that they want that 380+ top stuffed gear right here and right now. And what u gona do after? Nothing, u will leave the game…
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You’re still literally telling people to just be lucky in a system that really is riddled with too many layers of RNG. You’re literally blinded by your own luck in refusing to see how people with less luck has to deal with the frustration this system causes.
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WHAT FREAKING FRUSTRATION are u talking about!? Are these people unable to play bcuz they dont have 370-380+ gear? Are they incapable of clearing damnation runs or what!? I played Lost Ark for a couple of years - dont freaking tell me what luck and RNG is, my man, i know it better then u 10000 times more. You are just lazy motherslackers, that dont want to grind thats it. Go play the game and u will get your so desired gear within a week or two.
No believe it or not there is real problems with the loot system. Vet, Zealot, and Ogryn are mostly fine minus how wild the loot score swings but Psyker gets boned on several fronts. Trying to get staffs in the store at all is a problem and every blessing being locked to a specific staff sucks to work towards.
Curios are badly implemented at the moment and blessings overall need an overhaul to which ones are on which weapons and how they work (on top of several having really unclear descriptions there are also ones that are flat broken as well as several weapons just having massive pools of blessing that don’t make any sense).
On top of that character siloing is ass. I put 3200 hours into warframe and it’s not a time issue, even not counting the rng parts of the itemizaion system is provably obnoxious. Doesn’t matter if i put 400 or 1k hours into Darktide, time is not going to make those parts of the system suck any less.
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Most of my upgrades this patch has been from the hourly armoury and the occasional lucky snatch once per 30-40 odd brunt rolls that don’t happen to brick.
Its still kind of insane to really get what you want.
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I played the game for hundreds of hours and never saw unstable power blessing on a force sword of any tier.
I give this advice to you and anyone else basically. Temper your expectations.
Most weapons can get pretty good even around 330 rating, while (some) 4 attribute weapons (TH, helbore, voidstrike ect.) want more. If you actually play the game it isn’t really a problem to get something good pretty quick (pretty good meaning 3-point trait, level 3 blessing with 350-360 rating).
The problem is if you want near-perfect weapons falling like candy you will have a bad time. The thing is you don’t need that, it rarely changes the game. If you want to go for the perfect one then you have to grind and it is luck, like any other loot-based game.
It’s not a lottery, it’s not a casino, and it isn’t gatcha. All good looters are designed so that when you have an already pretty good weapon getting a better one will take longer and longer the more perfect stuff you are looking for.
Apart from some balance problems that are problems with the weapons (like plasma needing to be almost perfect to feel anywhere near usable, or some weapons feeling awful without key blessings like auto pistol), the loot/crafting system in itself is finally in a pretty good place (if you actually like playing the game).
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I don’t personally care that much if my godlike weapon is 330 or 370 and honestly this narrative has to stop that everyone here wants perfection to drop like candy.
No I want weapons that actually has the 2 blessings rolls I care about, preferably the 2 perk rolls I want( don’t even need to be T4) and stat distribution that actually makes sense for the weapon.
I like to theory craft stuff and try them out in practice. This game is actively trolling me when I try to do this and i really don’t have to like it.
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