Curios, their intent, and making them more interesting

So examining curios it seems that the idea was to give more build variety and overall control over character buffs vs the VT 2 jewelry system which was a lot more limited. However there are several big problems with them and their design doesn’t really gel with the DT item system.

For starters curios are far less common vs in VT2. Being able to roll new jewelry at will made the overall grind for them far less tedious despite their far more limited application. As it stands you at best have the option of 2 curios per hour which isn’t great due to the sheer amount of variance you can get with an average curio. In addition to this having curios being character locked means there there is far more chance of getting the right curio but on the wrong character. This really needs a brunt’s style system where you can buy greens and roll them up.

Taking a sample from logging in this is what the curios looked like between Malk’s shop and the store. Surprisingly today was much better than most times.

Preacher:
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Vet:



Ogryn:



(ogryn did not have a malk curio)

Psyker:



Out of these (which was a surprisingly good sample, i don’t think i can state just how much better this is than most of the time i check for curios) we have 1 guaranteed good roll for preacher which is the malks with minor rerolling with 2 greens not worth buying, 1 potentially good toughness curio for vet, 1 ruined hp curio and one semi-ok stam curio for ogryn, and 2 surprisingly good curios for psyker and 1 from malks not worth grabbing.

The big issue is that there is far to much variance between base stat and secondary rolls with protentional to ruin it. Anything that starts with a +xp, +ordo, or +curio reward is an instant dumpster. In addition to this not all curios are created equal for all characters so while a +21% hp curio is a benefit for a preacher or Ogryn it also would have var less of an impact on say Vet. This could be easily fixed by removing character siloing as you would have a much grater chance to find what you want across different characters or funnel in the resources. This is made even worse by the variance between base stat rolls.

On the note of resources curios are extremely resource intensive to roll for overall a small benefit. Generally speaking you are effectively rolling 3 extra weapons worth of resources but have even less control over your end result leading to much more scrapped progress. Even then you can argue the actual pool of useful modifiers is extremely small and mostly settles on several of the following:

+resist gunners
+resist snipers
+hp (class dependent)
+toguhness (class dependent)
+combat ability regen (build dependent)
+toughness regen

A lot of other modifiers just don’t have the same impact or aren’t noticeable at all (+resist bombers and tox flamers for example doesn’t stop the instant toughness break and most lingering effects are damage fast enough that a resist isn’t noticeable). Comparing tot he VT 2 system it was also much easier to balance and give larger bonuses since you couldn’t easily stack multiple of the same type and just felt a lot better (Overall +10-20% hp bonus on one modifier vs stacking 3 different +5% hp or a +10% CD reduction on one item)

To feel an impact in moment to moment gameplay you need to stack multiple of the same type which is hard when you have 4 different stats that can roll with only real control over the first 1-2 viable stats (assuming you are starting from a blue, and not buying a purple or a orange from malks which has a much slower rate of accusation) plus a 3rd mystery stat re-roll. This is also compounded by each modifier having level variation meaning that it’s very likely you can get the right modifier but the wrong level of it.

That brings me to a protentional fixes.

Brunt curios - As stated let people roll as many as they want. This way people can easily roll up a set of +stat curios and experiment with different setups.

add more curios per shop rotation - more protentional to get something worth using and upgrading per shop rotation, fairly simple

Reduce the overall resource drain - Cut down on the required resources for rolling and upgrading curios. While you might ruin one it would be less of a big deal if you have half the cost.

Have curio blessings with larger impact, remove a random stat - Take a note from the jewelry system and have blessings which are limited to 1 per curio but has much larger impact on the moment to moment gameplay. This would also fix having only 1 roll on the item and make more potentially interesting curio combos with on hit / activated effects as well as work with existing systems. This could also synergize with various actions (Deploying kits, carrting scrips / grims, rescuing allies, etc)

add more interesting modifiers worth mixing - Adding more impactful side options to debase the current best picks. Maybe side options like % more ammo on pickup, +block on revive, +chance to not consume a grenade, +chance to crafting material pickup (resource perk actually worth having). This would also lead to grater chance of people building multiple curios dependent on build and situation.

Add 1 more reroll or just remove locks entirely on curios - Considering that the curio is only modifiers i think it would be fair to have some more control over it and in a case where you also increase the pool allow grater build variety.

make curios cross character compatible - Since they are generalized and in no way class specific i don’t think it’s an unreasonable ask. This is also easier to experiment on new characters for specific curios when you have a reliable set of 3.

4 Likes

Or, just dump all the RNG and give the players agency to reroll these without locking/punishment. Match the VT2 crafting.

Why make us waste so. much. time. when this is supposed to be what we do for fun and not working at our jobs?

Totally agree with sharing curios across characters. And weapons. And currency. And resources. And contracts. Why they’re siloed is beyond me.

5 Likes

Honestly if i thought they would do that i would suggest it but im mostly rolling within the realm of things that:

  • I think FS will actually do based off their content updates.
  • That will not cause people who are heavily invested in the rng grind to flip out at me.
  • Asks that aren’t going to cause an all out flame war.

Tell the truth if i could i would say rip it up and go with a more simple pay credits / mats, upgrade thing system similar to payday 2 or DRG or other games but it’s been floated before and a few people including fatshark seemingly are diametrically opposed to a system like that entirely and i bet doing that would take a lot of time that would get in the way of making content.

At this point it’s basically arguing for the system to be less obnoxius within a reasonable development timeframe (though tbh some people might still get mad that im suggesting reducing the grind at all since there is a subset of people really invested in the idea that grind = content)

2 Likes

I feel like the “Blessing” should be more unique. Simple stat buffs are boring, uninteresting and add nothing of value to the game.

Give us something like DRGs Overclocks or at least buffs like the weapon blessings have.

For example:

Losing all your toughness damages enemies around you by X. 3 minute cooldown.

+3 maximum grenades but ammo packs restore 30% less ammo.

Coherency buffs persist for X seconds after leaving its radius.

Coherency buffs of the same type are now able to stack.

You can carry an additional pickup.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

It’s a co-op horde slaying game, go nuts! Give us fun toys to play around with and stop trying to play it safe.

I would also like to point out that we only got defensive curios so far. I’d like to see a servoskull curio that floats around you. It could have blessings like an autoscanner, a headlamp (hehe), a taser, a Laserpointer, a one time shield, a limited time revive or the ability to carry a health/ammo box.

I wish Fatshark would just… do something with their games…

3 Likes

The reason why curios seem more like an afterthought than anything else is because they only offer small statistical benefits. The items that are the most fun, the ones that get players to keep coming back for more, offer functional benefits. That is, instead of merely giving you a small bonus to your stats, they fundamentally change how the character plays. That’s how you create build variety in a game.

As a sidenote, I’ll grant you that once statistical bonuses become large enough they can also fundamentally change how the game is played - which isn’t necessarily a problem either, you can often make players pay a price in some other area to compensate.

Curios in their current form might as well not exist. There’s simply nothing interesting about them whatsoever.

6 Likes

Would definitely love to see them reduce locks to 1 on these (or reduce Curios to 2 perks each, but instead the effects by 50% so you reach roughly the current effectiveness). One lock between 2 things is fine, but 2 locks across 3 things is a crazy low chance of actually getting a decent roll. (Although part of this is just how many bad curio perks exist currently.)

Additionally just like we need a Blessings Pass we definitely need a Curio Perk Pass, because many of them are awful. Damage reductions against Flamers/Mutants/Hounds just ignore how those enemies work really. Flamers are dangerous because they delete toughness. Mutants are dangerous just for being a short disable. And Hounds a long disable. None of them are threatening because of their direct damage, so having the perks related to them be the same 15% damage reduction as gunners (whose threat is entirely damage) makes no sense.

The pass should include even basic things like examining how +Stamina curios work. For example the perk you mentioned isn’t a decent Ogryn Stam Curio, there are no decent stam curios for Ogryns because their stam is always off the charts. So what if instead of +3 stam it was something like “30% Stamina Efficiency (does not stack)” (and yeah they’d have to rebalance or remove certain other things like sprint efficiency or block efficiency). That way it’d be fairly useful for any class.

Brunt Curios are still a great idea. Also enjoy the idea of more interesting modifiers, ideally with things designed to synergize with each other, and with class features and feats. The current list is pretty bland.

Yeah this was the kind of stuff I was thinking of for curio blessings. Buffs that somewhat effect your play style and have noticeable differences but are more odd.

Additionally things like:

Standing in an active medkit increases your reload / quell speed

Using an ammo box now also restores grenades

Can’t be stunned out of hacking / carrying but take 5% more damage while doing it.

Gain an extra 10% toughness / HP for every book / grim your team has.

Situational but impactful.

I also like the idea of offensive curios they serve a special function.

Fair point, I think overall it would be a lot better since even builds centred around it are kinda niche and would give them a boost (off the top of my head slab shield, Psyker’s deflect, anything with a +push).

Really it would fit the goal of having a lot more build variety beyond just “stack whatever your class has most of and maybe throw in a + if you feel like it”

1 Like

Well Shield already has the cheapest pushes in the game (combined with 8 stam). So you basically never need +stam with it, certainly not until they make the push-attack a little more useful than it is (it’s the highest DPS single-target attack, but Shield does such abysmal single target damage that it’s still basically never worth using; you just switch to your GG or whatever to kill armor, and use the shield for horde clear).

I wonder why they moved weapon-alike blessings from curios, it’s the same V2 jewellery but pure stats. Like curios were added in the last moment instead of gadgets.
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They should really change at least one curio slot to a class item that has bonuses for that specific class only, sort of like the class item in the Borderlands games.

That way we could have items that do things like change your grenade or your ability, or add more power to damage dealing grenades and abilities that fall off in usefulness in high difficulties.

3 Likes

The OP has good ideas and it is great to give the issues with curios more attention (and especially the siloing-system of the game).
+1

I also do not get it. While it felt really dumb in VT2 that all traits got re-rolled at the same time, so one needed to roll and roll and roll… until a good match came up, the system here is hands down even worse.

I really hope FS is working on making coins, mats and curios available for all “operatives” (like in VT2).
While I don’t know why they would want us to grind and grind and grind for NO reason, I could accept it if O N E piece of their system would be present - so we need some additional time to get awesome gear. Like locking of one trait after re-roll or siloed coins or siloed mats or… but all of them? At the same time?
Big step back from VT1 and VT2.

1 Like

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