Why does a higher damage roll…
…hit weaker than a lower damage roll?
Fatshark, I think even your own system is rebelling.
…hit weaker than a lower damage roll?
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First target
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So the lower damage roll does more first target damage than the higher damage roll one? That still does not make any sense.
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It‘s it‘s own statbar. High damage + high first target would be even better.
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I don’t know what you’re saying.
77% Damage = 71 light dmg and 319 heavy dmg
68% Damage = 73 light dmg and 328 heavy dmg
How does this add up?
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The shown damage (71 and 73) is the damage done to the 1st enemy hit. Those weapons have both a damage value, and a First Target damage.
On the second weapon the 1st target damage is at 79% and on the 1st it’s at 67%
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That makes sense. Haven’t tinkered with heavy swords much so I didn’t realize that was even a thing. Thank you!
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Think that’s a factor across many weapons, not just swords.
You need to consider
- damage - the primary stat
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- first target (if you’re working towards the target you first hit)
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- cleave + cleave damage (if you’re working towards a swing that goes through multiple targets; one is the number you get through, the second is how much you lose in damage after you hit each target)
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- finesse (if you want extra damage on a “crit” or weak spot hit)
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- penetration (if you want to get through flak/carapace armour)
then
-
- range (if you’re using a shotgun for example)
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- collateral (if you want stagger and/or have bonuses against staggered targets)
The numbers you see on the weapon screen are pretty much first target against a stock enemy.
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Inspect feature shows the breakdown of all this maths.
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It doesn’t really make sense. Not until you go into the submenu of the the weapon, and look at detailed stat maps for each of the five things. It’s not made to be… user friendly, let’s put it that way. But then again a 5 stat power budget system was never made with friendliness in mind in the first place.
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I think it’s probably meant to be user friendly, but only to the absolute most basic of levels. It’s trying to give an approximate representation of all those funny bars for people who don’t want to/aren’t going to/couldn’t understand if they went into the submenus and looked at move sets and the math of the weapon.
I can see why it lists what it lists, but the reality of the weapon is so immeasurably complex that it absolutely doesn’t reflect the full detail to the point that a no-clue user can make a reasonably informed choice.
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I mean it’s definitely discernible, but is it particularly clear or direct? Not at all. I’d say it’s completely the opposite.
I often wonder, do we need all this? Does every weapon having 5-6 variable stat bars actually net added value to the game or does it just serve to overcomplicate things needlessly? More and more I’m leaning towards the latter. I know there are some who love the number crunching part of the game, but I absolutely loathe it utterly. Just let a sword be a sword and a gun be a gun. If I want to tweak it, let me do so through some unambiguous means like component swaps and blade modifications etc because this all just feels pointlessly nebulous.
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I really enjoy testing weapons and stuff, however I still absolutely hate the stat system. I would much rather test what different talent trees and blessing/perk loadouts do than whether or not my weapon can meet BPs it should be able to.
I think the biggest difference for me is there is negative feedback around the testing. You are not testing why your weapons is better, you are testing why it is worse.
When testing blessings and talent trees, you can find new and interesting combinations that improve the weapon, and preform better because of it. That’s a positive interaction.
When testing stats, you see that you miss a breakpoint on a Rager that could mean life or death in a run. That’s negative.
Like @Nish has mentioned before there is potential for modifiable stat bars to be a good thing, but it needs some changes:
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Have more player control over stats.
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Change it from a negative experience to a positive experience.
For example, have 400 total points instead of 380, you can take individual stats over 80% and have control over them. This creates a positive testing environment, where you can specialize the weapon the way you want, and are testing what unique things it can do, not what it can’t do.
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I’d consider that a sort of improvement, but I’d honestly rather just have flat, baseline stats for every weapon and have any particular stat change be tied to the modification of a specific part of the weapon through components/alterations. I don’t see the need for it to be this complex and alongside all the RNG I think it’s probably one of the culprits in scaring away people from sticking around.
Now brace yourselves because there is another Helldivers 2 comparison inbound. HD2 has fixed weapon stats and if the datamines are to be believed, there is a weapons customization update somewhere in the games future. Things like muzzle attachments and magazine types are what I can remember off the top of my head but I’m pretty sure there were other things as well. Presumably, these would offer pretty straightforward stat improvements of various kinds. That’s all I need. I don’t need to ability to make one weapon to be 6 different middling versions of things, I just need it to do what it’s supposed to do and if I need something that does something different, I will grab something different.
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I would agree the current implementation is horrendous, and that having weapons with flat base stats would be an improvement I would welcome.
Personally I would consider stat modifying to be mechanically better for the player than part modification, excluding different sights. You wouldn’t have to choose between a heavy or light barrel, you can choose what range, damage, and pen modifiers you want outright. This might introduce a balancing nightmare but it’s not like FS balances the game anyways.
A combination of both stat modding and weapon attachments would be awesome, and even having base stats and only attachments changing stats would be cool (this is what most games have).
However as I said I do enjoy testing weapons and builds a lot, so a system that I mentioned would be the most enjoyable for me.
As for HD 2 customization, I don’t believe we’ll see it for awhile, if we ever see it. It could be a vestigal system like the weapon customization in Darktide.
In fact, I think all the Liberator variants point to a strong possibility we won’t get weapom customization in HD 2.
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Keep in mind the game soft-launched without numbers on the stat bars, and without the detailed view breakdown.
It was clearly meant to be unfathomable, no doubt related to us not being able to see behind the scenes, so that we would believe the spiel about “discovering the hidden potential” of the weapons.
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It’s meant for people like me who are too lazy to actually care about breakpoints or anything, we just see a number… except we also run into this disconnect of “y dam numbr low, but stat hi?”
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It’s still crazy to think how absolutely god awful Darktide was at launch. No matter how bad some things are now, it was somehow way worse back then.
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Y’know what’s funny?
Bars without numbers can make sense…on fixed-stat weapons. So you have a selection of stats that are the same type (Damage, Fire/Swing Rate, Magazine Size, etc) and then each weapon varies. So an autogun and a lasgun have different tradeoffs but the lasgun will always do xyz things and the autogun 123.
Darktide obviously didn’t do this, but statless UI isn’t inherently a bad idea - unless you’re trying to implement random stats that don’t match between weapon types.
Detailed stats in Inspect were out by 11/30/22. The idea that the stats UI was intended to be confusing and wasn’t just incomplete is…something!