You were not able to produce single argument on why it’s bad. You’re just repeating how it “stinks” but not being able to explain why actually.
2 Likes
It’s not a competitive game, so I really don’t care how other people play. Jsat can do this kind of crap if he wants to, but to me it’s boring and stupid, like abusing a glitch spot in the terrain where you can’t be reached by enemies.
HOWEVER, that all changes when Fatshark decides to start re-tuning combat because they don’t know how to create a challenge for Jsat and others like him unless they change the basic combat mechanics. They shouldn’t be tuning the game for the rest of us around people who are abusing broken mechanics.
3 Likes
I really don’t understand what you are talking about.
This is not new mechanic, this mechanic is in game since release and I explained why it’s fine few posts above this one.
If anyone thinks otherwise, holy Sigmar guys… stop with the it’s “abusing/stupid” and explain why you think it’s bad/problematic.
1 Like
Did you even read what I wrote? I don’t care that other people do it, but I think the problem is when Fatshark decides they need to re-tune the game because it’s easy for people who are abusing glitchy mechanics.
2 Likes
I did, but you obviously did not read my posts.
There is no glitchy dodge jumping mechanic that people are abusing.
1 Like
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree then.
1 Like
Well… are u guys trolling me here, or what? Nobody was able to actually explain why they think the mechanic is “stupid”.
While I actually explained it, and you just ignore that post and keep on saying how it’s glitchy and whatnot.
Flisker, just for sake of discussion accept that not all view it as legit mechanic, please. They just accept it’s not affecting them so they don’t care. But when people using it claim game is too easy and needs to be harder they do find themselves affected by it.
2 Likes
I’m not sure where people get the idea that the game is balanced around the 1% or that they have as much influence as people think they do (spoiler: they don’t). If it were, this game would be practically unplayable on Cata. 
FWIW, Fatshark enjoys a little mechanic discovery in their games, and is why they have kept in unintentional things like QQ cancelling, dodge jumping, finger rolling, active reload, etc. It’s when things get too much do they start taking things out (like r-bashing [which, lbrh, was way too good and needed to go, though wish they had limited scrounger bash proc versus removing it entirely as now Blunder feels somewhat anemic], and I guess flail tech for Saltzpyre, [but ehhh, wish they hadn’t done that either]). Block reviving was never intentional and then they made it a legit part of the game.
So FS enjoys these things, but has the final say on what is and isn’t too good for their gameplay.
I feel I need to state this here in my edit, though: All these mechanics are kind of fluff though. They’re not actually needed to play the game, so in general, they don’t hurt anyone and really only bring some level of extra efficiency.
7 Likes
Well sure, everyone views everything differently.
If you don’t view it for whatever reason as “legitimate” whatever it means in this context then alright.
But that changes nothing on the fact that it is not a bug, since it’s in the game since start, it’s relatively well known and widely used. And … it is not some super OP mechanic.
People did not find 1.6 Legend easy because of dodge jumping …
Also reason why everything is messed up now including difficulty, is not because of people saying Legend is too easy or because dodge jumping mechanic. It’s ridiculous to even link those.
its not athat not all view it as a legit mechanic. its that very,very few view it as a legit mechanic.
i give a similar “mechanic”…
i am on a civilization (the games) forum. a guy comes on and talks about how he likes to play deity level (many on the forum do) and he says anyone can do it. he then goes on to say that all one has to do is start a game, save it, play a few 100 game turns into the game (thus knowing the map, where all the other civ’s are, where the key resources are, etc), and then reload the game back to turn one and play on normally from there.
sure its permissible by the game. the game doesnt stop you from doing it. the dev’s never made it impossible to do this. but its still gamey, its still lame, and its abusing a game mechanic. if you want to do it i cant stop you but its pariah behavior. imo the community should boot you for doing it and then refuse you access to “their games” or refuse to join your games. do it alone.
arguing because its been in the game since day 1 means it isnt a bug is the same thing as saying phantom swings have been in the game since day 1 too and assuredly meant to be there too.
There was a post from Fatshark where they basically said “some people were too good at dodging so we had to change the combat or nothing we do would make it challenging for them”. Maybe someone else can find it easily? I’m getting ready for work so don’t have time to go looking right now.
I think QQ canceling is just as dumb as dodge-jumping, for the record. And I’m not sure whether Fatshark keeps that stuff in the game because they like it, or because they don’t know how to fix it without breaking things. (I mean, we all saw how they “fixed” firewalk and slayer leap…) I really don’t care that those things are in the game, but if that’s not how you’re expected to play, then combat shouldn’t be tuned because it’s too easy for people who play that way. If abusing those glitchy mechanics is how you’re expected to play, then I guess this really is not the game for me.
3 Likes
It’s not expected of you to QQ cancel. Of course not. I’ve played with some pretty stellar players who don’t QQ/active reload/whatever unintended mechanic players use. It’s fluff. Basics will always get you further. The rest is just extra.
Re: dodge. Dodge was a bit too lenient, but this one is still pretty chill, to be honest. I was pretty upset about it myself at first. However, I’m not the best dodger, but a couple games I adapted somewhat. You can still tempo dodge if you really want to.
I don’t think anyone wanted firewalk and slayer leap fixed. That was balanced around the 0.0001% who don’t even share their exploits. Poor guys. I feel for them.
4 Likes
Anyway, as I’ve said multiple times now, if you think it’s not legit, it’s stupid,lame,glitchy and whatever else… you need to be able to explain why.
I just hate to see these post where people keep complaining without any arguments or explanations to back it up.
As @Exanimia pointed out, it’s something extra that is useful in certain situations, but it’s not something crazy overpowered that people are abusing to destroy all content. If you can solo legend, than you can do it with or without dodge jumping it’s not needed.
Wtf are you talking about … again just avoiding the actual topic, going with ad hominems, classic.
1 Like
the guy who was playing civilization and posted his idea on how to have a great play through couldnt understand it either. why not? its allowed. its a legit tactic… eh?
and nothing anyone can say about what a cheap tactic it is will ever convince you because its one you use and therefore you have a vested interest in “not getting it”. its a waste of time. the fact that you use such holes in the game mechanics basically says it all…
I have zero experience with civilisation, therefore I can’t assess validity of this. It’s pointless to bring it up here to people who know nothing about it.
You did not come up with single argument about what is wrong with that mechanic.
I’m very much open to arguments against it, but for 10th time, you are unable to come up with any.
You’re are wasting a lot of time on these forums, you could easily write one sentense about what is the core problem with that mechanic and why is it so powerfull. If you actually had any arguments.
The thing is you can’t, because you probably don’t even understand the mechanic yourself and now you just digging yourself deeper and deeper grave as is very common in these situations. Where people get stuck.
People should not take strong positions on things they don’t understand.
1 Like
Had breakfast after work, so I wouldn’t crank up uselessly.
Sure, it’s not a bug. However, whether it’s OP or not, well that’s up for discussion.
So is whether it should be in the game or not. Just like the current stagger mechanics.
As for widespreadness, aside from fully hearing about it here I think it relates to the latter part of the quote.
Don’t know, I never found it easy, I saw as a proper challenge and the amount of times I had to discuss that there isn’t need to change it is one too many.
Now, the amount of people I saw saying that you just can dodge dance infinitely around hordes and patrols. This was especially prevalent in “Zealot OP” topics I’ve visited. They often lead to calling Legend too easy. And that’s the most I heard about dodging, nothing about dodge jumping. And people do talk about QQ cancels and R bashing where i visit, but not everything.
I do believe, it’s yet another failure on FS part honestly in lack of visibility in game about such things nor their stance on that.
Sure, if you don’t care of selling your art. But in the end, if you do want to sell, it’s their customers who get to decide whether they like it or not.
Kinda yeah, but when it permiates too much and for example if someone says they don’t like Halberd since it has wonky attack combo which makes it hard to deal with horde and answer is “just QQ cancel” then you should know something overstayed it’s welcome. If defense of weapon’s quality is based on animation cancelling then the developers have failed their players in making an enjoyable weapon.
2 Likes
It doesn’t trivialize dodge dancing. But it does trivialize kiting. So much so that the game feels broken if you play that way. That’s why I see it as basically the same thing as abusing a glitch spot in the terrain where enemies can’t path to you.
I agree it was never needed; I never used it. But my point was that most of the people I’ve encountered who complained that the game was too easy would abuse things like this, and tune their graphics settings way down so it’s easier to see all of the enemies, etc. If people are just sidestepping a bunch of game mechanics to avoid the difficulty, then Fatshark should not be re-tuning combat with them in mind. Fatshark should just ignore those players and focus on making sure the experience is good for the masses.
2 Likes