Good topic! I don’t think not getting help is such a serious problem myself, but tbh I’m too rarely on the receiving end to be able to honestly comment on it really. Both bc I’ve played since release, and bc most of my downs come from soundless specialists and other bugs so I leave often before I’m even downed (not proud of it believe me, I just can’t handle that bs).
I think the general differences in teamwork just come down to the games being so different. VT2’s endgame was hard enough to demand high teamwork (at least back when I last played it long ago), Darktide is much more easily clutched & carried, and its resource contention, mat grind, and lack of fixed positions for stuff like books also encourages splitting the team & exploring more.
Darktide also has a lot more players in endgame who obviously aren’t ready for it. They often develop tunnel vision and don’t even notice someone was downed, while getting downed constantly themselves. Which in experienced players creates this sad sense of constant frustration of getting used to randoms downing themselves every few minutes. Ironically it has a lot of illegitimate downs too, from soundless specialists to instant (& soundless) burster spawns to command queue problems etc, meaning moving out of position to save someone can often be a lot more risky than it would seem. Plus all the cheaty garbo just contributes to impatience and annoyance in general.
tldr; I feel like Darktide doesn’t demand or encourage teamwork as much as VT2 did. Yes it has the coherency system but that’s less about “the full team” and more about just not being completely alone.
I only play Auric Damnation and not sure if it’s EU players being worse or something but compared to VT2 I virtually never see successful clutches in Darktide, at least not any more. I’ve played with randoms 95% of the time and with 500 hours in VT2 and 1000 in Darktide I’ve always felt that Darktide is much more challenging.
The problem with mechanics in games in general there isn’t enough mechanism to encourage and reward for playing as a team or focusing on actual objective, apart from just finishing the mission.
For example in the old Battlefield games like Bad Company 2 you could have lowest KD but highest score and therefore highest XP earned which contributed to your rank and weapon progression. You could achieve this by avoiding combat and complete focus on destroying objectives. New battlefield games do not give enough boosted XP for objectives. Imagine you got 10 points for kill but 100 for objective. The motivation changes.
Reviving, healing, rescue, hitting the objectives - Now if DT added massively increased reward for those team actions. Just for in jest sake - Imagine you received plasteel reward for all those actions. Yes you should not “have” to be motivated and do it out of courtesy. But in games development of online games the best way to design good sportsmanship is to create mechanics to encourage it by reward and design mechanics to prevent people purposely sabotaging because as generally “most” people have courtesy, some do not.
Thankfully Darktide does not have this problem. Every now and then just get one person that gets funny but very rare.
because 90% of the time its better to go for the rescue rather than the revive.
Do i wanna fight 10 gunners in the zero cover area my teammate died in? or do i wanna fight 1 bulwark and one mauler where i can revive him? easy choice tbh.
||actually its not easy I have no man left behind ingraved in my brain may times i end up throwing just to try to revive one person in a horrible spot|| this is not spoiler text but please pretend it is
I see what you mean but for discussion’s sake I wanna say it’s way more situational than that.
Compared to the revive scenario where you basically see what you get (especially if the downee helps with tagging potentially hidden threats), there are plenty of unknown factors in the rescue one.
You don’t know how far away it’s gonna be
how many guards there are (can be way more than 2)
What else the director has in store for you once you get there (mixed horde ambushes)
What the director will cook up between now and the rescue attempt
Because of the above and since I was baptized in the no man left behind mindset you’re describing, my philosophy is to at least try to move closer to the downed buddy and mow down whatever got them and then try to get them up (which in theory is easy for every class apart from Psykers who can’t nuke/go invisible, too bad I’m currently a Psyker main).
Makes me sad that I very rarely see others do the same nowadays, hence the post.
Maybe it has been said in this thread already but Vt2 had a lot of safe options for revive and generally lower enemy density unless you were on DW/OS. (e.g. Handmaiden’s dash, you can start the revive, dash/invis away and still complete the process. )
That being said, I don’t think revives are much of a problem in DT. I found most teammates to be cooperative and helpful. I think the bigger problem is that folks are incentivized to quit when the going gets tough.
OP mentions the sense of camaraderie. Well, in VT2, after every match, you would load with your team into the Keep. You could talk to these strangers, adjust your strategy together, etc. The mourningstar by contrast is a dead, empty, and boring space where you can’t interact with anyone.
Couldn’t agree more with the lack of co-op incentives. Lots of things FS could do to fix this. No auto group as you mention, ordo’s/mats/other rewards as someone else said, and additional penances for example. Maybe once we see how the LFG function works out they’ll give this aspect of the game some love.
