I didn’t throw stones, I asked a question about why this thread points to several low-traffic threads on the topic instead of the 2 much bigger ones with much more conversation on the topic. I think that’s fair. I maintain that it was an odd thing to do.
I’m sorry I used words you don’t like. You can replace “knee-jerk” with “immediate” and you can replace “narrative” with “assertion” and my point still stands. Not everyone thinks the baby should be thrown out with the bath water and that the tree should be reverted or completely reworked.
Yea, I think the keystones are good. Yes, I’ve brought my voice to these topics repeatedly in an effort to make reasoned arguments in favor of the keystones. I feel that I have been measured and courteous and have always been willing to listen and understand others’ viewpoints.
I’m going to keep doing all of that.
But I don’t want to take anyone from anyone. I’m sorry you’re not enjoying the keystones, truly. Changes are almost definitely coming to the tree, because I do think it’s nigh-universally agreed that there needs to be more flexibility. But yea I don’t really want the new keystones gone, and I’m going to keep participating in polite conversations around them and all other aspects of the game.
I’ll probably share it if we don’t have substantial changes in the part 2 patch for Vet.
PS: It’s not a threat, it’s just that if we have changes there is no reason to run that build and the required playstyle might not fit with the changes or there might be a better version.
Well, people did complain for quite a while about Assail taking fun from others, in the sense of “This is effortlessly killing so many things, there’s very little left for anyone else”. And I’m not trying to start another discussion about Assail, just providing an example of where a build may have been considered as “stepping on the fun of others”.
honestly, the skill tree thing was the mistake, they should have just used the old skill system and just expanded each level from 3 to 5 or so to add variety without getting into silliness. giving fatshark enough room to hang themselves on the details is never a good plan.
So to play this out…we would have gotten 8 new sub-classes, like Assail Scrier Disrupt Destiny Pskyer? Or maybe better: Smite Shield Empowered Psionic Psyker. Damn that sounds awful!
Since a new thread seems like a good opportunity to collect my thoughts, I might as well share my experiment for rearranging the tree to be more flexible. Literally one less node vs the current arrangement yet I think it makes it so much easier to mix and match across the main paths without having to pay 1-2 point taxes everytime you cross over.
They dont have to do it exactly like this, but I think it shows how they dont even need to remove things to make it more flexible, just give people more direct cross branches without tax nodes.
I invite you to try replicating your build with it to see if it it saves you any points, its not much but it saves me 2-4 points which I know I could damn well use.
On the topic of bad arrangement and whether or not to remove ‘useless skill’ bloat, I do think that some of the useless skills would actually be useful if actual thought and care was put into their place in the tree.
The example ive highlighted in the red circles is swapping the 5% grenade regen perk ‘Demolition Team’ with ‘Catch a Breath’. I explained the rationale in more detail in a seperate topic but the TLDR is:
While not as good as the 60s regen perk ‘Demolition Stockpile’, its still better than no regen and could be good as a budget alternative. So where do they put this less effective perk? At the deep end of the tree in a very expensive place to reach, later on in the same path that you find its superior version of course!
Agreed - my problems are with details of the execution. The base concept is a great improvement over the older system.
Honestly if they just consolidated 6ish nodes (3 per lane) into other existing nodes, added 1 more sensible connection between the lanes and raised vet‘s base toughness to 150 instead of 100 I‘d be extremely happy.
I would not want to go back to the old skill system.
Speak for yourself my friend, my two builds don’t even touch the keystones lol. I have a Melee and a shooter build that spread throughout the tree.
To put this into perspective my shooty build can drop a crusher on Damnation in 2-3 shots with a Lucius Mk1.
My melee… well… if I wasn’t devoted to the glorious shovel would probably do something similar, but I’m using the glorious shovel for a reason! Which actually is pretty nice since the shovel buff! Can’t wait for heavy shovel variant.
I’m personally happy with my current talent setup. Its been working insanely good for me on T5+
The fact you ignore keystones is a sign they are either garbage or there is too few points in this utterly bloated tree. The vet tree is a disaster that needs trimming.
I know veterans has little to do with psykers, but i could buy all 3 keystones on my psyker and still have perk points to spend if they didn’t get locked
if you are a shovel boy you didn’t reach the end of the tree even in patch 14, cause you want both oneslaught and rending strikes to do 650 dps to the crushers
Vet is the only class presently where you have to comb through the tree with a magnifying glass and a glossary to be reasonably sure you’re selecting decent nodes, and that’s before any consideration of the keystones.
EVERY other class, you can pick and mix, trying various options out here and there, and have fun testing them out. It NEVER had to be this way.
Can’t really say I agree with catch a breath being where you placed it, if anything it should be merged with kill zone, along with relentless being part of executioner’s stance and surprise attack being a part of infiltrate. You said VoC could be used to push enemies back to activate, but it already gives you full toughness on use so what would be the point? As for making the bottom parts of the tree less rigid, where the diamonds come to a single choice, just have a horizontal path to adjacent trees, can even cross 2 branches if you want albeit at a slightly higher cost which would be achievable if they adopted yours or one of the other suggested slimmer trees people have made.
That’s fair enough tbh, my priority was more to repair Demo Team’s viability, where catch a breath occupied a good space but seems to get universally bypassed by people due to its faults.
I didn’t want to outright erase nodes since my focus was on showing what could be done just with re-arranging things but I admit my argued benefits for Catch a Breath are thin since its definitely a skill I think has problems with its concept that cant be fixed just with better placement.
I did actually consider putting in direct horizontal paths at the base of the trees to give more freedom in choosing a keystone without being having your path to the bottom limit your choices.
Instead, I left the proposal for the bottom of tree as limited as I did because the lack of crossover felt very intentional to limit the combination of certain skills that I didn’t want to undermine, such as being able to crossover to get multiple ability modifier skills without investing in their trees.
Its ultimately just meant to be a demonstration of what could be done with the tree to be more flexible since I would love to see it, Id be surprised if a future revised tree uses even half the changes Ive suggested.strong text
