So much venting... Why not move on?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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Unfortunately, I believe the only ones able to break that loop are Fatshark themselves. There are always going to be toxic players in a gaming community, that’s just a fact of life. The best you can do as a developer is grit your teeth and try to sift useful feedback out of that vitriol, which is what the CMs are allegedly supposed to do (we miss you Catfish!).

The more consistent their communication starts to become, as well as the more transparent it is, the more the overall community sentiment will shift towards a more positive outlook.

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42

I think you’re probably correct on some level here. It’s something that I can sympathize probably feels like a lose-lose situation to them, but it’s like others have said, this is just what people are like. As much as I do not condone or excuse people acting out of vitriol rather than logic, FS did open this door themselves. If they want this whole phenomenon to subside to more bearable levels, they do have to do better, which is still the missing, key component in all this.

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It’s pretty simple.

People like the core gameplay experience (it IS unique and well-executed) and they want the rest of the game to be the best it can be as well. They can SEE it being a lot better.

People want to love the game without reservation They don’t want to think, “I love the combat, but…”. Fans want to feel good about recommending the game to friends without having to include a bunch of caveats (“the core gameplay is incredible, but XYZ is super frustrating”).

That’s the basic issue here. People are critical because they love significant aspects of game and see how the rest of it could be so much better. That’s the driving motivation for criticism: to be wholly satisfied by the product.

So when opportunities to improve the game are left unmet, people get frustrated and they fall further into a love-hate relationship with the game.

These frustrations are magnified by two other sources:

#1 relates to unmet expectations. Fatshark set expectations with respect to the progression system being more player driven and “learning from all our prior games” and so on. But by most fan accounts the DT progression systems are worse and more frustrating than anything VT1 or 2 ever put up. There are other unmet expectations too: a reasonable mission selector, solo mode, etc. You know, the things their prior games had without question and people assumed would be carried forward.

#2 relates to FS communications and engagement, which is haphazard at best and actively harming their PR and brand at worst. It’s one thing to be frustrated. It’s another entirely to have your frustrations disregarded, redirected, and glossed over all the while promising to be better listeners in the future. This turns frustration into anger.

Yeah, we can all move on. Maybe we should. Maybe it isn’t healthy dwelling here hoping for things to improve. Maybe we’re the insane ones pounding our heads into the wall expecting Fatshark to change. It’s entirely possible Fatshark is getting worse, not better, at least with respect to DT.

But for those of us that care about the game and want to see it be more successful and see the community grow positively, we’re still here holding out some shred of hope and trying to keep the light aimed at the prize.

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44

They win first by actually listening to the community narrative and then proactively communicating to get ahead of it.

Case in point of how they do it wrong:

The skulls announcement was deliberately vauge and a lot of people took the announcement to mean that crafting changes WERE coming on the 25th while to many others it was an written to give them an out because it probably wasn’t going to make it into the June 25th patch. Why be ambitious and cagey in communications? And moreover, why wait until less than a week before the patch was due to tell everyone know that crafting wasn’t happening and crush their hopes?

Fatshark’s problem is that they not only don’t communicate enough, but when they do communicate they also do so BADLY and just make the situation worse. But communicating better is not rocket science. There is no reason they shouldn’t be able to get ahead of the narrative.

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45

The CM’s real jobs are, obviously, to be the emotional shields to the rest of the developing studio. To convert the chaos of the feedback into actionable items to bring to the team. Don’t let them see the horrors of the unfiltered community at large. (Reminds of the inspector/Enforcer arrangement from psycho-pass. We must preserve the hues of the developers! We can always get more CMs…).

(I also really think more survey and polls should be done in general. Let’s use that direct democracy from the Swiss).

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46

Yep totally agree with all this. I think the ultimate question is, psychologically, what is the best approach to actually getting them TO change? (This isn’t a rhetorical question). Personally I just think their behaviour needs to be criticized and we should give actionable advice on what/how to change… I just don’t think the seething anger that can come from behind that criticism and shape how it’s said is as useful. And at worst hurts the end goal of said change.

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47

I don’t know man, I don’t really think we can do anything. It’s like with any person, you can’t make them change, they have to want it themselves. I think all that can be said has been said both poorly and eloquently. They have all the suggestions and evidence they need. Not sure what else we can do.

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48

I mean, that’s probably the case too. There’s nothing else to do, at least for these common issues regarding the company itself at this point.

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49

The doors of hell are locked from the inside, as they say.

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50

Imma be honest - the complaints and the detailed, respectful, comprehensive feedback have been said pretty much continuously for a year on.

I don’t think we can do anything to change the company beyond continuing to complain. And at the very least yelling on the forum makes us feel better.

The change has to come from Fatshark and Fatshark as a company doesn’t want to change.

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51

As it always is with companies: hit their bottom line.

Look at the changes Creative Assembly has made to product delivery following the massive PR catastrophe when the jacked up prices and cut content among other grievances.

The difference is that CA is much bigger, owned by SEGA, and when the firestorm started gaming media started reporting on it. And all of that did has an impact in pressing them to change.

FS is not big enough garner much press about this and I’d guess Tencent (their parent company) just care as long as a the MTX store keeps a trickle of money coming to them. There’s been all sorts of appeals to Fatshark leadership to doing the right thing and build a positive game environment, etc and they clearly don’t care and have no intrinsic desire to improve the situation. And of course it’s entirely possible Fatshark just doesn’t care because theyve made enough from the game to fund their next venture and that’s all there is to.

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52

this,

by now they can´t afford leading us by bread crumbs when a clear vision needs to be communicated about where things are headed.

  • artwork and overlay of the new map followed by an actual developer feedback giving us the
    raw gist of what its about to entail

  • next weapon design and functionality, in detail, perks, blessings, damage, patterns.
    that way we could react very early on if that´s something the majority is even gonna use in
    presence of whats already there.

    maybe change a pattern or tweak a bit of dmg numbers before actual release, by feedback
    early on.

    there are reasons no one uses the paul or krourk VI, ripper VI etc for example, take those into
    account

  • show your “oopsie” with the not quite there item revamp, maybe it´s on the right path,
    maybe the final version you envisioned is boycotted by players just as much as whats already
    there and all the time is wasted.

that doesn´t mean the game should develop about a screaming chamber with everyone gurgling HIS vision of the game into BUT if a majority outright REFUSES what is there or whats to come, something has gotta be off.

and by popular poochie demand :

image
image500×534 63.9 KB

edit: dunno why my pc here keeps messing up the text blocks :thinking:

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53

Basically what we’re stuck with is ‘get the 99% of players to stop buying cosmetics’ as a plan of action.

It’s a pretty straightforward pattern that when player averages drop below ~3k or so Fatshark rushes out some kind of announcement that they’re totally working on stuff guys please just trust us.

All they’re effectively doing is trickling out content for the game during that whole process, but they only talk when the numbers of players drop below a certain (likely cosmetic-buying related) number.

So if you want comms? Get people to stop buying stuff.

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54

You know what, I’ve been losing interest even engaging with this forum. But you just set too tasty of a bait because of how you enjoy engaging with anything. So here you go, you get a reaction.

I’ve sought out positive threads and engaged in those discussions.

I’ve seen those, they’re often insanely shallow and that’s why they don’t last long.

However, I’ve noticed that the majority of threads tend to focus on frustrations rather than positivity. I wonder why these frustrations are being rehashed repeatedly.

I wonder why as well, maybe it has to do with the fact it’s a common pain point, maybe we’re also frustrated by our friends not wanting to play the game because of the same issues we have with the game. That’s just one answer, there are so many more.

Occasionally, new commenters vent their feelings but then quickly disappear. Out of curiosity, I researched why people might want to remain angry or aggrieved, and the results were fascinating. But that’s a topic for another time.

I would love to see your rationalization for this, I believe it would be enlightening for reasons you don’t think it would be.

Through my conversations with many of you, I’ve learned that a lot of you no longer play Darktide and have moved on to other interests. So, why continue to participate in forums for a game that frustrates you?

Maybe, just maybe we’re hoping for a reason to come back and play this game, maybe we want to play this game however the systems do not want us to. Maybe by participating we can have our voices finally be heard and oh look, get an itemization rework to address the frustrations we’ve had since the “crafting” launched.

Personally, this experience has deepened my appreciation for the game as I’ve looked at it more critically

Have you? Have you really looked at the game more critically? Or is this just some plea to try and appeal to detractors of yours.

I just don’t understand why anyone would want to stay frustrated or angry. Moving on seems healthier for mental well-being. Holding onto anger isn’t healthy. I realize that questioning this might be uncomfortable, but my intention is not to upset anyone. Instead, I’m genuinely curious about why some choose to stay in this cycle of frustration.

This is outright projection, most people aren’t even angry or anything, just annoyed, release their annoyance and then they continue their day elsewhere. The people who stay on the forums hoping for change aren’t sitting here seething like some enraged toddler. From what I can see most are just annoyed and want to see change, that’s all I log in for is to check announcements, see if there is a new announcement. Then I go to Discussions, see if there is one or two I want to engage with, then I log off for the day.

If HD2 is enjoyable, why not focus on that? Or why not discuss Space Marine 2 on the Saber Interactive forums or engage with the Arrowhead forums? This isn’t about defending FS; it’s about understanding these actions that I’ve observed over the past two to three months.

I am playing other games, however that doesn’t mean I cannot log in, see whats happening on the forums and hope to see a change coming. Enjoyment of one thing doesn’t mean I cannot enjoy another game and hope it changes. If you think that way, that may be more of a you issue.

I’m not looking to create conflict or drama, though I understand that might happen.

This is the part that inspired me to write this, do not lie to us. You are looking for negative engagement. Those of us who have been observing you have seen how you engage, you do something inflammatory but hidden behind a truckload of “politeness.” Then you report those who get too aggressive. We’ve seen this, we know you well enough by now to know how you think about things, how you try to bait. We’ve also seen thread get shutdown from you abusing the report functions.

Edit: added a missing is, and shortened a sentence towards the end with an unnecessary comma.

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YARN | Embargo, on! | Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome (1985) | Video clips by quotes | df37debf | 紗

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I agree on bottom line, if it comes to that. I mean, whether we say it or not, all this MUST be hurting their bottom line. Lack of communication and content, and the unpopular systems.

But as for the reasons why it’s all guesswork really. Maybe tencent, maybe lack of press, maybe poor leadership, etc. Issue is it’s hard to definitively conclude on any theory without greater insight into their company. It would be nice to see.

But even playing devils advocate, I can’t really think of many good reasons why they wouldn’t just tell us what they’re THINKING for the crafting/item rework. I am not sure why they still don’t want transparency there UNLESS they’re still not even sure and don’t want to share something that’s going to change last minute, even high level.

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58

Its hard for me to believe that, but you could be right. I think FS have become content lining their pockets and breeding inefficiency with their overall accountability over the many years. Who knows when it started, but just look at V2 Versus.

In general, when things start to affect the bottom line, change happens. FS changes nothing.

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59

I feel like many of the people here still like the game, and play it regularly enough. Otherwise, well, why waste time on something that you don’t even find fun ?

No, people are voicing their issues here because we’re not part of their elite Discord beta testers clique, but we’re desperately trying to get a point across, in the hopes that just maybe it’ll get improved or fixed in, like, a year down the road. Because that’s just how slow FatShark works. I mean, just take a look at the long standing bugs (some of which are simple lua typos !!!) that were “acknowledged” 3 patches ago, but are yet to be fixed.

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60

There has to be a player presence on the forums at all times, sorry. Take it up with the Företagsledning, maybe?

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