People like you are the reason Fatshark thinks it can get away with not developing their games and shilling overpriced cosmetics.
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If you feel FS is breaking the law or abusing you, take legal action. Make a difference that way
Based on your evasive response, i am going to assume that you retract your previous claim that
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You can take legal action using a good manner
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Well even if you really are a 100% always polite person (which i do not believe anyone is), you should still be enough of a realist to understand that
- always being polite is not a reasonable thing in all situations.
- you can not expect everyone to always stay polite, when they are feeling mistreated.
- emotion can signal urgency. If everyone criticizes something in a very calm and polite way, it can not be as bad of an issue.
Unless you are autistic or have some other reason for not understanding human behavior at all, it should be clear to you, that humans generally are emotional beings (even if you are not).
If something is bad, people will get emotional about it.
And when people feel like they are being treated badly, they will probably get mad.
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Look, I don’t want to pile on the inflammatory comments, but out of all the posts I’ve read on this forum, including from OP and Jakal, this is contender for top spot of one of the stupidest things I have seen.
Fatshark sucks at developing video games - this much is true. They lied to us - this much is true. But there is absolutely no way in hell the community has a solid case against Fatshark, much less acquiring the funds to support said case and actually winning it.
The only solace we can give ourselves, and the only hope we have of making a meaningful change, is to endlessly moan about the parts of it that suck until they change it, and then encourage them to keep doing that until it’s in a solid state - then we can start giving them praise to keep going and make the game better. Unfortunately, we are two years into the moaning phase, with no end in sight. It’s hard not to be jaded.
And again, that begs the question, “why not move on?” And I’ll reiterate - because the game is awesome, and it could be even more awesome. I’m upset that nobody who can make a change is working towards doing that.
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There is - people payed their money for a GaaS expirience but stuck with 2 years of early access with mtx’s and anti player retention mechanics like gacha and timers. It’s not a F2P game should i remind you.
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Thats where legal actitons can come into place. Or simply being irresponsible with money. Dont buy a product before it has been reviewed if its that important, wait a year or more before getting your hands on it, then you will know if your money will be well spend or not
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They seem to be quite good at making video games, they have alot of people playing their games, they must be doing something really awesome to get the attention they have.
Some aspects of their development might not be as good as others, sure. Im pretty sure they got a plan and they are executing it.
As a buisiness, they look at sales, they look at how many people are actively playing the game. They wanna make more money. Theres no way they dont want the game to be better. Are they doing it the way the forum is telling them to do it? probably not. Should they? maybe, maybe not.
So far we got an awesome game that slowly keeps improving. We also got a vocal minority, as the forums usually are with people wanting them to do all sorts of things and changes to the game.
Its better if they stick to their plan, scan the forum and decide maybe, just maybe take some good ideas from the forum and put in their pipeline for future changes. If they read something on the forum now, they might implement it in a year or two when it fits their schedule. Or in a month, who knows. Let them develop the game.
Be polite, give constructive criticism. step back, stop playing the game, wait, see what happens. Or play the game as it is and enjoy it while also giving feedback if you wanna do that.
Dont call anyone names, lift yourselves up to a higher standard, dont bash people for opinions even if you think theyre awful. People are so very different as individuals as well as developers are different and publishers.
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“Lift yourselves up to a higher standard.”
“You guys should literally sue Fatshark.”
Which is it? 
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I dont see why it cant be both. If you indeed have been subject of illegal action, take legal actions.
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Yeah yeah risky thing and all. Why don’t you mention FS part in this story tho?
Perhaps you shouldn’t feed people with “next week” and “we do care about your feedback” lies. Pretending you are going to release a FINISHED product while it’s not?
Just say it’s gonna be several years of insanely slow early access. Would be a fair deal, but what company would say such truth.
There are some market standarts, when you are trying to lower them and think you are above them you get 67% of positive reviews, this graph and people calling you names.
Be fair, deliver a finished product when you take someone’s money, listen to your community, be faster and more competent.
Sure, when FS will do this so?
The whole your take is about people should spend their money without any positive expectations and then you are saying about higher standarts, what a kek.
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Please refer to @CobaltNinja 's earlier response:
One thing that they neglected to mention is that legal battles can last for YEARS and still lead nowhere.
Edit: I dunno why I’m giving this 'Phage bait thread any attention at all… my bad on that, everyone.
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I mean, so this is pretty obvious as to why:
Funnily enough one of the solutions to this problem is something like the FS forums (8:09)
Even offline think about your personal life, or story telling in general. People are interested in conflict and drama. If I am at a social gathering trying to think of something interesting and engaging to tell people it’s not going to be “My life is great right now, things are going swimmingly. My love life, my financial situation, etc.” People may resent me let alone lose interest. However if I said “My love life is in shambles, I have so many issues at work right now” and went into details, people would be more likely to ask questions and engage. They are problems to solve. They are things that need to change and require resolution.
The same is true for video game feedback. Who’s going to engage and care if I make a thread saying “The core game play is great! I love this game! Now please engage with me and respond”. It’s not going to generate that much interest. It’s human nature.
Me personally I was planning on being like one of the many others who just make a forum account to state why I don’t like the crafting in the hopes of change. And then leave. Throwaway random name and begone. Obviously this didn’t happen, I got sucked in beyond what I could fathom at the time. But wanting change. This is the most important part. Positivity doesn’t motivate me because, just keep doing what you’re doing. Doesn’t require feedback from me. But something very painful and in the way? I feel incentivized to let someone know, in a desperate attempt to save/improve the game. Because it felt like needless self sabotage, truly tragic. I am happy they are finally doing something but I worry it’s too little and/or too late.
No such thing. FYI.
Not much to say with this not even being out.
^People bring these up as competitors and to point out Fatshark doesn’t have all the time in the world to grab new players and new sales as well as to try and pull back all the players taking breaks or lost to the RNG frustrations.
Also the fatshark forums are just inherently fun for some reason.
I don’t think anyone WANTS to be frustrated or angry. The tension they are facing is between wanting to play and like a game that has amazing core gameplay and these secondary and tertiary systems that get in the way of that fun. I can say I don’t even feel all that angry or frustrated these days. I have moved on from darktide, they broke my addiction. I was playing it all the time on release to the point my girlfriend was getting angry about it. Now, I just hope to get to play it in the fall. Maybe my friends will join me. I don’t know. I don’t have anything left to lose, so why get angry? Either I continue as I have been not playing it or the change is good enough for me to come back and I get a game I like at the end of the day.
The one, seemingly, unpopular opinion I have is I do agree there’s too much venom and vitriol in people’s criticisms or make it too personal (to the developers). We can make assumptions and theories about what’s behind the scenes at the studios but I don’t feel it’s particularly useful to criticize them in terms of things like incompetency, lazy, mismanaged, etc. Maybe it’s true, I just don’t know enough to say. And even if I did… what’s the point? Is me saying it going to change it? If I look back at FS I think they were more communicative before but we would absolutely bash them to the point they are now super careful with their words. Or no words. Emojis even. Think about all the “hedge” quotes that have become infamous. Look at HD2 where management is telling the devs to stop looking at discord and engaging with people because of all the fights that break out. At the end of the day, they’re just regular people if we want them to engage there has to be less emotional barriers and enough rewards to do so.
You can say they’re just a corporation, they should be able to take it and etc. and that’s fine and valid too. I just think harsh criticism is warranted of the game and it’s systems, but of the people behind it? I don’t know, I don’t feel comfortable doing that unless I had a lot more insight. There’s been broken promises and likely lies but who or what’s to blame I don’t know. Solo mode, vocal minorities, advertising less RNG, advertising this game as a “live service”. Yeah there are valid things to be angry about and towards the company itself. But who’s to blame or why at the company? Tencent? Share holders? Devs with hard on’s for RNG? C-suits? Senior devs/Founders? The demand for dedicated servers (and designing systems to pay for the overhead)? Spaghetti code? Mismanagement? Swedish vacation laws? Games workshop? The “Hardcore” VT2 players that asked for more endgame grind? I don’t know. Maybe they would be more honest with us if we didn’t destroy them at every announcement. Catch more flies with honey than vinegar. You could say they shouldn’t be so thin skinned but honestly I am shocked at how much they allow people to say on the forums without removing it.
Anyways. @Cerebrophage so does this mean if the rework is going to have less/0 RNG in the itemization and crafting systems you are going to stop playing now/enjoy it less?
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thats a job for
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He watched Matlock in a bar last night, the sound wasn’t on but he got the gist of it.
And this seems to be another variation of OP’s usual thing with baiting and then reporting when you disagree with him for reasons that are mean. Fat Shark isn’t even delivering the game they want so its amazing to think that somewhere it would be on the players to just appreciate what we have better and not the studio culture that is disappointment followed by under delivery changing.
Where’s that Skinner meme. Clearly the players are the problem.
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Brosgw, I respect your work, but the destruction is precisely because they’re not honest. With so little to show for the time spent people, myself included, are trying to make sense of what’s causing the actual problem: to be blunt, everyone wants to figure out who’s to blame. This is a problem that’s gotten worse and worse over time as the game has not meaningfully improved quickly enough and Fatshark has continued to overpromise and underdeliver.
If Fatshark actually delivered transparency, constant comms, and showed signs of responding to feedback, people would be far less angry. Instead they shovel out hotfixes every couple of weeks for the cosmetic rotations, tell us nothing, and then announce that the one update everyone wants so they can decide whether or not this game is salvageable is delayed until Q3 when they manifestly haven’t been doing enough to justify not having that update out already.
If Fatshark wants people to stop critiquing them, they need to deliver content and actual responses to feedback and they need to start yesterday.
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Mhmm I spent a silly amount of time on the official forums for few game franchises I genuinely cared about. Battlefield was one of them, also from a Swedish studio. I will stress BF “was” one of them. So that’s the part of my counter argument. Game studios should more concerned about people moving on, than actually venting. RIP Battlefield.
I have engaged and I have seen many people engage far more than its worth with the game they care about, providing feedback, bug reports, feature requests etc. In some cases it was equal to voluntary unpaid work. A fair measure of the useful stuff was also mixed in with pure venting.
People care about their hobbies, probably more then its worth. Whatever we like it or not, people not always deal with frustrations in reasonable or constructive manner. On other hand, venting, aggression and general organised rage resulted in game studios making multiple U turns on some controversial issues, so negative pushback isn’t always fully destructive.
Just to be clear. I don’t condone abuse and repeated harassment of individuals, but brands are not people, they are free game, to ridicule and laugh at.
When it comes to Fatshark, I find that company actually still have a soul, or should I say people who care about their products, even if as any company they clearly lost some crucial to their success employees. They aren’t fully run by profit obsessed corporate suites who know nothing of passion…yet.
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I am not against criticizing the company at all. They deserve it. But tone I think is a big part to play here. My issue is more with form rather than function. It’s like how I treat my friends and partner, or people in general (or try to anyways). If I am upset with them, I try to say why I am upset with them, as calmly as possible. I shouldn’t hide the fact I am upset or angry. And sometimes it’s unavoidable, or even needed to clearly express JUST how angry you are in terms of intensity. But I think when it gets to a point of belligerency and colourful adjectives it’s lost it’s usefulness.
Like, Fatshark was staying silent and getting bashed for not communicating. Fair enough. Then they provide a short update. Clarify the itemization changes are a rework and including crafting, and more! Fantastic. It’s not going to be in place for the 25th of June (understandable to be disappointed in this) but they still get taken apart. I just don’t see how they can win 
Like it’s different to say “You need to work on faster content, communication, and delivering on these failed promises like solo mode and a better item progression system. It’s unprofessional to promise things with dates and then go silent.” VS “FS is a bunch of losers and incompetent and etc.” I just don’t find the latter as constructive. It’s useful in the sense that it displays the intensity of the emotion well. BUT! I feel it does a disservice to you, the consumer as well. Because they can also write you off as too emotional, too irrational, unable to be pleased, to be ignored, etc. I think if you levy harsh criticisms with a different “tone” I just think they may take you more seriously and put more stock into it.
Humans in general, if they’re met with indignation, will want to fight back out of spite or vengeance even. (Maybe this is where the player hostility comes from? Jk).
I don’t think people are going to change, least of all by what I am saying, and I agree they need to do all the things you’re saying. I just can’t help but feel that the silence we get is a response to that. It’s a feedback loop. We get angry, FS gets more quiet, we get more angry, etc.
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The only thing that frustrates me about this game is being tossed around like a piece of junk by exploding barrels or jumping plague ogryns.
Playing nicely, never dieing, just one plague ogryn and you are at the bad spot, blub and dead because you got flinched out of the map.