So are we going to talk about how busted revolver is or are we hoping nobody notices?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
282

Looking at Darktide Breakpoint Calculator, Boltgun (80 all stats) has the following damage

  • Unarmored: 540 (120% avg)
  • Infested: 304 (67% avg)
  • Flak: 544 (121% avg)
  • Unyielding: 544 (121% average)
  • Carapace: 217 (48% avg)
  • Maniac: 544 (121% avg)
  • Average: 448

Ripper Gun Mk II has the following

  • Unarmored: 544 (155% avg)
  • Infested: 544 (155% avg)
  • Flak: 371 (106% avg)
  • Unyielding: 247 (70% avg)
  • Carapace: 24 (6% avg)
  • Maniac: 371 (106% avg)
  • Average: 350

Antax combat axe (light)

  • Unarmored: 265 (110% avg)
  • Infested: 265 (110% avg)
  • Flak: 314 (130% avg)
  • Unyielding: 265 (110% avg)
  • Carapace: 66 (27% avg)
  • Maniac: 265 (110% avg)
  • Average: 240

Antax combat axe (heavy)

  • Unarmored: 284 (91% avg)
  • Infested: 284 (91% avg)
  • Flak: 337 (108% avg)
  • Unyielding: 569 (182% avg)
  • Carapace: 256 (82% avg)
  • Maniac: 142 (45% avg)
  • Average: 312

Power Sword (heavy)

  • Unarmored: 217 (139% avg)
  • Infested: 164 (105% avg)
  • Flak: 164 (105% avg)
  • Unyielding: 148 (94% avg)
  • Carapace: 49 (31% avg)
  • Maniac: 198 (126% avg)
  • Average: 156

Power Sword (heavy special)

  • Unarmored: 489 (102% avg)
  • Infested: 489 (102% avg)
  • Flak: 489 (102% avg)
  • Unyielding: 668 (139% avg)
  • Carapace: 289 (60% avg)
  • Maniac: 445 (93% avg)
  • Average: 478

Boltgun and Ripper Gun have 1 moderate and 1 significant weakness each.

Combat axe is versatile, and close to average in most categories, has 1 moderate/significant weakness.

Power Sword has 1 significant/moderate weakness.

Average damage is not the perfect thing to measure against, but it should give a reasonable perspective on how the damage is distributed.

Raw damage, Finesse and other things have a part to play, of course, but each weapon makes tradeoffs when you look at armor modifiers. Factoring in Rending/Brittleness makes those weaknesses diminish massively.

EDIT: For good measure, the revolver

  • Unarmored: 504 (98% avg)
  • Infested: 504 (98% avg)
  • Flak: 597 (118% avg)
  • Unyielding: 597 (118% avg)
  • Carapace: 366 (71% avg)
  • Maniac: 504 (98% avg)
  • Average: 512
2 Likes
283

This is all single attack values, not factoring in magazine size, firing and reload speed, ammo reserve and so many more important values.
The revolver deserves to have a lot more damage per shot than the other guns, because it has the lowest magazine size in this game if you exclude explosive weapons.

It’s 5 shots and reloading them takes forever.

The melee weapons also have nothing lost in this comparison, because they operate without ammo and fall into a different niche as is (with swing time and movement speed being important factors).

So what the Revolver showcases, is that it actually doesn’t pack all that much power compared to the other weapons. And all that while coming with very sparse magazine and ammo reserves.

It’s in a fine place.

284

Boltgun has no weakness… none
Doing 218 damages against carapace is not a weakness…

Ripper gun has a weakness against carapace like the revolver. It means you just need to take can opener and the ripper has no weakness.

Ps, kill crusher easily… especially if you put the right blessing on it.

You say Bolter does 217 against carapace… but has 15 rounds
Compared to revolver with its 5 rounds, Bolter kill faster a crusher than a revolver.

But, sure, on paper the revolver is too good against crusher. But when I see a patrol of 6 crushers, strangely if I use a revolver I don’t go after them singing"I will easily kill 6 crushers"… and I really would prefer to have a bolter in my hands.

285

I’m not sure I agree with this. It might need a nerf, but I don’t think its the only issue. For example with the revolvers passive stats and a 5% crit perk (yeah no one runs 5% perk right now cause surgical is strong, supporting your post), i can get like 40% crit chance, and then with deadshot and even something like crucian i can pump that crit chance pretty high. Long story short i think you can still get really high crit without surgical.

I don’t think the issue is that the revolver can one shot a crusher. I think the issue is it can oneshot multiple crushers due to its cleave. The revolver shouldnt have cleave… thats the plasma’s domain. I also think that no matter what its one tap potential is, with its long reload and low ammo pool, with no cleave it will still have healthy competition from weapons like plasma, voidstrike, etc. Just my 2C, im by no means a tides expert. And I admittedly am not as experienced with the revolver as I’ve been all aboard the autogun train this patch.

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286

Just to chime in on this specific thing… Yeah boltgun has weaknesses. Its the 6 second reload, the clunky swap, and the hella annoying recoil.

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287

against enemies…

revolver has also a weakness… 5 rounds chamber

It cleaves if it kills.
However, I want to see something one shooting a crusher on damnation… cause I need at least 3 shots with a zealot.
So maybe, with right talents, 2 with veterans… I don’t believe in it… but anyways, nobody can one shot a crusher with a revolver on damnation(+).

288

I was able to perform one shots on both vet and zealot. Vet with marksman tree and exec stance. Zealot with FotF, and the middle tree ranged augments to damage. 3600 (or higher?) crits. Wasnt a walk in the park it set up the perfect conditions for the zealot though. I had to slot in +25 carapace damage/10 elite damage on the perks for the zealot as well.

Actually, if i put +carapace on my current vet revolver I CAN one shot damnation crushers without exec stance… meaning that i can probably one shot crushers in damn + with exec stance and stacked conditions. But my revolver is also pretty good… the only thing its missing to increase its top end would be 10% elite damage over its current 10% bonus crit damage…

1 Like
289

I’m personally loving all of the (polite) discussion of my favorite weapon. It’s enjoyable thinking about it from different angles!

Just wanted to throw in another thought: I feel the reload being 1 round at a time – allowing you to load a round and immediately fire in a pinch – is actually a huge benefit it has over many other hard-hitting weapons.

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290

Interesting

Then here, considering this, I agree that it should not happen, as it can lead to several crusher killed by same shot. And that, this should never happen.

About zealot ult, as I always say, this is circumstantial. You have 2 charges, and if there are 6 crushers…

But this could confirm that there is problem linked to veteran…
However if you remove cleave, you make this weapon a pure garbage.

291

Just to follow up…

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With

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Its a lot. I’d rather just put + maniac on my revolver and 2 tap a crusher, its not like its hard to 2 tap with revolver anyways. Also using 10 stack marksman keystone, 15 stack + exec stance would push this higher even.

I also consider it kind of a handicap to not go melee vet spec, but thats more of an opinion than anything else :stuck_out_tongue:

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292

I’m just illustrating the (approx) breakdown of strengths vs weaknesses, relative to armor type. Realistically, you’re going to be going for headshots (and crits, depending on weapon) which has a significant impact on the actual damage – in the case of the revolver, it’s roughly 1.5x/2.5x/3x for weakspot/crit/crit weakspot – but the ratios remain the same for all 4 types of hit.

Which, to my mind, is a poorly-designed blessing/mechanic. Giving the weapon a weakness then also giving it the perfect solution to said weakness, is kinda dumb.

I’m talking about in relative terms to its other armor modifiers. 218 damage is weak, when you do 300 - 500 against everything else. Shattering Impact takes you to 435 (and brings your highest armor modifiers to 600)

As I said in my initial post, Rend/Brittle is more of a problem than the revolver. It’s not as apparent with the Revolver (since patch notes lied to me,and the revolver has variable penetration), but Rend/Brittle still provides a stupid amount of value.

Interestingly enough, a revolver with 0% Pen and 80% Pen have the same crit breakpoints when Hand Cannon is used (without, there’s 2 shots in the difference). Penetration as dump stat, confirmed :winking_face_with_tongue:

293

That’s actually not bad, it’s pretty good, and I’ll gladly trade you for one of mine. Just replace the efficiency perk with one for whatever you want to 1-tap or +5% critchance, and replace quickdraw with handcannon.

Edit: Disregard, I need to learn2read *

294

IMO, other crit blessings need to be brought up to surgical’s level instead. It’s the only worthwhile crit blessing atm.

295

Ok fine. Changes made, Zealot now completely sucks at ranged because “He Is MeLeE”. So what happens when you get an “Oops all Zealots” game? Do you just curl up in a corner and cry when you have a team of gunners supressing the crap out of you?

296

Eventually if FS thinks that critics build have to land ton of critics
Fact is, crucian roulette is weak actually.

And I think that surgical strike is procing too fast. I don’t say that it should be like pre patch 12, but something at the middle of what we have now and what we had before.
Actually, you don’t need to get any % critic chance you can get in your talent tree or even as perk… cause surgical strike procs too fast. And that is a problem in my opinion.

297

I remember seeing this and having a laugh, seems relevant.

5 Likes
298

In the case of most Rending and Brittle related blessings it work, cause the mechanic to gain the effect aren’t things that are up to chance but rather up to play style decision:

Can Opener
Target receives 10-16 stacks of 5% Brittleness on weapon special hit. Lasts 5s

Still need to go in melee and use the bayonet (Meaning use the weapon in close range)

Shattering Impact
Target receives 1-4 Stacks of 5% Brittleness on direct projectile hit. Lasts 5s

(Rumbler) It’s a grenade launcher, most people don’t bother on hitting the enemy with it, just launching it next to them is good enough, you need to aim for it (If anything I could see them increase the stack of brittleness it give)

Ruthless Backstab
+90-120% Rending on Backstab Hit.

Needing to be able to circle the enemy (Which I kinda want to see on more enemies

Uncanny Strike
+12-24% Rending on Enemy Weak Spot Hit for 3.5s. Stacks 5 times.

Hybrid, slightly more than the 2nd category, but need slightly more involvement than the following

Rending Shockwave
Target receives up to 2-8 Stacks of 5% Brittleness, scaling with charge time of Secondary Attack. Lasts 5s.

Supercharge
+1-4 stacks of Brittleness on Energised Hit.

Thunderous
Target receives 1-4 Stacks of 5% Brittleness on Hit. Lasts 5s.

This on is the least difficult side, it’s a buff for using the weapons in their normal ways, but it’s alright cause it’s not a massive buff.

Which leave the outlier of Hand Cannon:

Hand-Cannon
+50-80% Rending on Critical Hit.

Which could be changed to something more in line to the rest, either falling into the 1st category (Giving it a real mechanic), or in the 2nd (Lowering it’s effect), or making it like Uncanny Strike (Hybrid)

For example:

+25-40% on Weak Spot damage
->Higher than Uncanny Strike cause ammo, but working on the same system

+50-80% Rending on Point Blank hits (Pretty Melee range)
→ Making it in a way similar to Can Opener

299

You cannot think this legitimately if you play the bolter. The bolter can easily fail to 1tap a shooter regularly. Its ADS is a nightmare. Its handling is insanely slow compared to the Revolver and its reload is just as slow as the revolver. It has huge sway making it hard to even land quick headshots unlike the revolver with enormous (and buggy) recoil that causes followup ADS shots to be far worse. Its first two shots of hipfire are reasonbly accurate but not perfectly, unlike the revolver. Its only advantage is being able to mag-dump stagger big boys and maybe snag a few kills while its at it or act as a horde clear grenade facimilie by magdumping a nasty mixed group.

I’m not saying the revolver is BETTER against Crushers than the Bolter in all cases. But it shouldn’t even be a competition in the first place with all the upshots the revolver has.

Reloading all of them without reload talents from 0 to full takes forever. Luckily you can just interrupt at any time and fire 1 or 2 shots. This is a huge advantage everyone ignores for some reason. Partial reloads are strong because what matters in many applicabale cases is not mag dumping but criticaly timed availability. Priority targets that die at the right time keep games going.

4 Likes
300

It absolutely should. There is nothing else to say really. It’s a slow firing low ammo gun. Of course it’s niche is burst damage. The Bolter has more shots and explosive rounds. The Revolver gets penetrating shots instead. All fair.

“The thing that makes the downside less of a downside is actually a huge advantage”. No, it’s not. It barely compensates.
You can interrupt the reload to take another potshot at whatever you’re shooting. It won’t really help with Horde clear. Yes, you potentially can take one priority target down. But in the time you finish your reload - shoot once - reload - shoot once more dance, you’d have loaded a full mag with any other weapon that’s not the Bolter or Flamer. There is little upside to this really.

2 Likes
301

This is terrible balance both from a lore and gameplay perspective. Just because something doesn’t have a lot of ammo doesn’t mean it gets to kill every target in the game easily. What it can do is kill certain key targets very well and thats a good role for a weapon. The targets it can kill are very very important and it can do so better than most other weapons in the game thus it is a great pick. Before patch 12 that was not true so no one ran it. After Patch 12 it was in an excellent place and it was very well liked for this purpose. It was not especially useful against crushers and armor at that time yet people were happy to use it. Why? Because it did some very important things very well. This gave it a key niche. Key niches and limitations are what make weapons balanced and create loadout diversity. A weapon that is good against everything is a snore.

This is something you cannot do on the bolt gun. It is a superior functionality.

Irrelevant on that last point. The revolver’s horde clear capacity is in mag dumping from a full cylindar which works just fine. But being able to not just “pot shot” but actually kill a trapper or flamer or gunner from an empty mag with minimal delay, right when it matters most, and not wait while doding incoming attacks to finish an entire boltgun reload is not a “minor” advantage. Its a huge one.

Alpha strike is always better than DPS in the hands of a skilled player because removing a threat at the right moment is always more important than eventually killing it a little faster. This is why everyone talks about break points and not damage.

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