Hot Take:
Smoke grenades wouldn’t be a problem if people got in the habit of tagging often even if it’s something they’re about to nuke.
Cold Take:
Although useful, they’re still weak. They should just turn them into Willy Pete (white phosphorous), and enemies hit by it are lit up and can be seen from outside the cloud.
I really tried to like the smoke grenades, used them for a week in a build and it really feels to me like a frag would have been better in every situation I threw one.
I’ve seen a similar discussion about smokes and a lot of points have already been covered, so I won’t list off the issues. I just hope the “Veteran skill tree rework” has a good solution coming.
(Would be nice to get our feedback before realease I think, but alas.)
That’d definitely help, but it wouldn’t make the problems around smoke go away. Firstly, there’s often there’s more than one threat out there and you can’t ping them all. There’s also the need to actually put your reticle over a thing to ping it, which you can’t do if you can’t see the thing.
Yeah, in the event that I get slam dunked which is rare but a huge pain when it is. My Zealot can tank a Crusher hit if my FPS gets lowered enough by the Ogryn using Point-blank Barrage on a Stubber with flame stacks (based Ogryn build but don’t look directly at their handy work if they’re good at it GODDAMN - same goes for Smite Psykers)
My Veteran does perfectly fine until he takes one hot and just gets nearly instantly downed whilst my Zealot can tank virtually anything with almost no points in Toughness except Loner, and it’s not reasonable.
Psykers were NEVER the best. They were good, yes but not the best. Ogryns shredded them in every way and I’ll die on this hill.
Yeah it’s why I just use Frags and Krak, none of my builds use smoke.
The only time ragers can near-insta-kill someone is when 3+ appear silently behind someone, usually as part of a horde. Honestly those mixed hordes are bugging out enemy sounds, and ragers are already too quiet as they are already too.
But smoke grenades are way to mid, you can’t use them to clear out space for some ranged attacks, they only block enemy shooter LoS if you stand in the smoke and they still shoot wildly into the smoke (of which I have doubts about that too, they seem to track pretty well into the cloud).
Morale boost (everyone dunks on another dumba** Vet main)
I’ve had it happen to me a handful of times and my friends have the same issue on Damnation. Maybe we should put in a report. This is also specifically for Dreg Ragers, I’ve talked to many others in the community and they’re having the same or similar issues with them. I’ve never had an issue with 3 Ragers spawning simultaneously behind me, but at once in front of me they’re usually fine to dispatch. My Zealot, however can end like 5 of them in 3 seconds. It’s insane and Vet just feels so… Boring and unrewarding in comparison.
I think a placeable melta bomb could be a fun blitz. Give it a similar throw range to power cells, alt fire to activate. Big boom, really good armour-pen. Default of 1, with the option to take the talent to have 2.
Idea would be theoretically for the stealth guy to sneak in and place one, so it’d kinda work to replace smokes. Kinda.
Obviously Kraks would have the advantage of a much greater range and higher base carried amount, but a well timed larger aoe anti-armour explosion from a melta bomb would have a lot of satisfaction on higher difficulties, when the crusher wave is THICK.
I played exactly 2 games where someone used the smoke grenade. It distinctly made the game harder and less fun, because enemies kept shooting at us anyway but now I couldn’t see anything.
Terrible grenade. Needs either some very, very serious tweaks and buffs or just replaced with something else.
I agree with everything you said except this. Shredder doesn’t clear anthing, just displaces them. If you take a shredder in the psyk and throw it at the trash mobs, it won’t kill poxwalkers, let alone the ‘newly infected’ mobs unless they’re standing directly on top of the nade. The frag could use buffs too tbh.
I use the smoke grenades on damnation+ and maelstrom only. Usually when there are a lot of shooters and a horde comes from the sides or behind, that way I give the team some extra time to deal with things in melee first. I also use it with the talent that marks specials and elites for the team, so they can see them through the smoke.
Still I think it’s underwhelming. It should block the vision of snipers and gunners should stop shooting. And yes, if you are inside the smoke it should provide some bonus effect, or maybe a debuff to enemies.
Shooters should stop shooting if they’re in the smoke too, or force them to charge forward in melee.
I hate that you are actually correct lmao
I rarely use it because the fuse is so damn long, hordes tend to be dead long before it explodes …
Went in to see the actual damage from both base Frag and Shredder and its a measly 150 - 250, then bleed stacks if Shredder, WHich barely ticks for 30~ a couple of times.
Even Krak only does about that to poxwalkers.
is this … a bug? Surely that cant be intentional for Shredder.
Thats absurdly weak, now i dont feel anywhere near as bad for rarely actually using it in missions lol
I guess all 3 Grenades need a rework … Hopefully Fatshark can correct it when they do the keystone rework.
I wanna ogryn slap the person who decided to remove the 4th grenade. But grenades themselves desperately need a buff, as the pathetic ogryn box that doesn’t even get bleed stacks prove. They need scaling on difficulty, like all grenades.
Amazingly the immolation grenade has explosion damage on top of horde damage.
Try throwing two. The bleed damage will kill anything below a mauler or rager, and if those got hit by either explosion, they’ll be left pretty weak too.
As for smoke grenades, most scenarios in-game I think to myself, this is where I would use other grenade. Whole bunch of maulers and crushers bearing down on us? Hoo boy good thing I got the vape nades, that’s gonna help.
I like them as swiss army knives. They do what other grenades do, but not as well, but you get more of them to make up for it.
Realistically, Shredder should do massive damage to anything not wearing armor. Just an AoE opposite to the more precision Krak for Armored targets.
Dismember unarmored, Bleed on Armored with its current detonation damage.
The fact that you’d need to lob 2 of them to kill a single target (EVEN A POXWALKER!) is honestly pretty sad. If it wasn’t limited to 3, it wouldn’t matter too much. But since they’re limited …
I know we can, assuming you have the perks, get 1 per minute and a handful more from the specialist kills, but ask yourself if being able to kill a group of targets on average once per 2 minutes is really actually effective in the course of a run.
Especially when the kind of targets that would get killed by it can already be killed fairly easily with cleave anyways.
I’ve long been of the belief that Blitzes should have been Equipment slots that we upgrade (no stat RNG like weapons of course, just straight stat upgrades) potentially using excess EXP at level 30.
Let it be upgraded from Grey (Sedition) to Blue (Malice) using Dockets and then taking it to Purple and Orange is just something that happens either by clearing the relevant difficulty with it equipped, or using banked EXP post level 30 to forcibly upgrade them.
Then we could at least get variations within a Blitz that lets us tweak the behaviour of them. Examples could include things a shorter fuse in exchange for damage on Shredder or reducing the detonation in favor of more bleed etc.
Blatantly untrue. Veterans are doing just fine on runs, but they are not the God-tier that they were before. A nerf was warranted, then there might still be balance issues.
You can always balance between damage mitigation and damage dealing. If you’re good at avoiding damage then you can put points into dealing more damage.
Like making sure my Grenade Gauntlet always has ammo. Love you veterans.
lol
Exactly this.
Yeah… it’s a bit hard to get away from in the tide games that the best defence is a strong offence. Dead stuff can’t shred you.
Right, but a Zealot and the Ogryn are front-line classes that are meant to be able to take more hits than the veteran or the psyker. This part is working as intended. Tanking is also not an apt word in this game. At least to me it implies taking hits, and you shouldn’t be doing that no matter what the class.
It’s perfectly reasonable.
Yeah, and nonsense like this is not helping in the slightest. If you’re going to be rude and disrespectful about it then I’ll just not bother. His original post did mention skill issues, but it was neither rude nor disrespectful.