So as far as I can tell, the blessing Skullcrusher has some different activation conditions than I thought.
On the plus side, the blessing seems to apply on the very first hit you do with the blessed weapon on a Staggered target. That means that either the hit that Staggers applies the debuff without benefiting, or the hit after that both applies and benefits from the debuff. Cool beans.
On the downside, Stagger in this case literally means only knocked on their ass. Unlike the talent Hard Knocks, which gives damage buff based off of a stagger of any strength, Skullcrusher will only apply if you full on send the target flying before or during the time you actually hit them. Or in the case of Bulwarks, you can guardbreak them as well.
Basically if you can’t knock the enemy fully on their ass, then Skullcrusher is more or less useless for that enemy. While the blessing is still helpful for higher health man-sized enemies that can be knocked down without grenades or ultimates (notably excluding maulers and shirtless ragers), that is a real bummer for me because I wanted to set up big bonks on big boys with Bully Club slap.
If everyone already knew this then I apologize for my silliness.
I was just doing some testing with a bully club on some dreg brusiers (melee guys) and I can get Skullcrusher to activate after slapping them (they don’t fall on their ass).
Enemies need only be in a state of stagger to activate Skullcrusher. Tougher enemies can and will recover from their staggered state faster than regular enemies, so the window for Skullcrusher to be active is going to be dependent on that as well.
Knocking their ass to the floor is one of the longest staggered states and enemy can be in, but not the only state (pushing them does as well - tested it with the same bully club. I think blocking their attacks might also count as a stagger?)
@MarxistDictator Do you know how this blessing works exactly? Heard some talk it was super broken and giving massive bonuses pre patch 15 but I have no idea how that worked or if it is still the case.
Debuff mod helps a lot with things like this. Skullcrusher adds 1-4 stacks per stagger, dropping a 5s debuff on the enemy that can be extended or maxed to 8 stacks by staggering them again. you do not need stagger states 2 or 3 to get max stacks (the heavy stagger states where enemies have to stand back up).
This is why its so underwhelming and also recommended. Because most weapons have literally this and nothing better for damage. And generally work well at applying it over and over again, like ogryn weapons. But even some of the best abusers have better options, like clubs have haymaker/thrust. No blessing slot left for a decent damage buff.
I didn’t do much testing on dreg bruisers because the weapon I was testing one shot them with or without Skullcrusher active. But with bigger stuff like gunners I didn’t get it to proc even after getting them to stagger several steps to the side with slap. It’s true that I don’t have the mods that make actually observing this stuff much easier though.
@MarxistDictator I should definitely grab that mod if I plan on doing more testing like this, but as far as I can tell I am unable to proc Skullcrusher on Crushers even when I can proc Hard Knocks using headshot club slap. Are you sure that any stagger is good enough?
Weird, I definitely felt the damage boost when I was using IndyCrusher with skullcrusher on Zealot. I usually open with the golf swing push follow up which have pretty high stagger.
All staggers work. On ogryn you should inflict the stagger with a heavy attack, because for whatever reason the bleed will take it to 8 stacks right after the first hit. Its basically just get skullcrusher stacks on stagger, those stacks can be reapplied without resetting and they last 5s. Its a pretty decent buff, considering the options (like the crusher that has an amazing 3 blessings affecting impact and this). I usually run it over BM on the ogryn shovel too, maybe the less risky H2 will change things but I do push attack light light all day long with the shovel and most every enemy has 8 stacks until they die. The ones worth displaying this info on, anyway.
Alright, then it not proccing on small staggers for certain enemies seems to be some kind of bug. Either that or it’s not an actual stagger I’m doing on the crushers and is just a slightly more exaggerated hit animation.
Edit: a small hit animation that procs Hard Knocks for some reason, which is also meant to proc on stagger.
I wouldn’t rely on even things that sound related to be proxies for weird condition states, this is a fat shark game. Debuff mod is pretty goated for more than just this. But of the on hit ones its a much simpler damage than the rest.
Weird UI bug I just noticed: skullcrusher III says its 10% damage per stack, so maybe this blessing will get buffed?
So, we were both right: Skullcrusher procs on any stagger according to debuff mod. Also, skullcrusher seems to be completely bugged and will only provide an actual damage increase on a knock-down Stagger. The other two options are that debuff mod is wrong, or the description of Skullcrusher is so hilariously inaccurate that it is useless.
Talent tree is reset except for Heavyweight and Slam.
As you see in the video, Skullcrusher provides no damage increase on the crusher despite the fact that it is procced, even at max stacks. That is, until I use my ult to knock him down - then he takes increased damage as he should. But then he stops taking increased damage once he stands back up, despite literally having the same stacks still on him???
Tell me I’m not crazy, because I’m thinking of filing a bug report. Basically my testing is showing that the debuff only actually works if the target is knocked down, which is really not what the description says.
Edit: The damage increase seems to only apply when attacking an already staggered enemy. I have realized this is just a worse version of the “40% damage on staggered enemies” talent in Vermintide that all classes had access to. Did everyone already know this?
Hmm, I don’t think it only proc on knockdown. You mostly just have to combo fast enough on already staggered enemy to get the dmg boost. Here’s an example.
It’s offer quite substantial damage increase on IndyCrusher which have high impact and fast combo but yeah it’s probably not that good on slower, low impact weapon.
Yeah, I’ve come to the belated conclusion that it’s basically a nerfed version of the vermintide 2 damage on staggered opponents. The description is really bad at actually describing what it does. It seems I’m belatedly coming to a conclusion that most experienced players already know.
I think it has been bug reported in the past (and acknowledged), but no harm in reporting it again just in case.
The description is also a bit ambiguous
Target receives 1-4 Stack(s) of +10% Damage if already Staggered. Lasts 5s.
My interpretation had been that they get stacks when struck while staggered, which then gives you 5sec of bonus damage. Reading it again, it’s basically the VT2 stagger talent
The Devil’s Claw is probably the worst affected; unless you build Hammerblow, you typically don’t have enough impact to cause more than a light stagger, on anything but the weakest enemies.
Honestly no matter how you read it, it’s a bad description. Either the Damage Buff applies if already staggered but there’s no info on how the buff is applied, or the buff is applied when the target is staggered with no mention of when the buff actually does anything. Of course, now I know it’s both. At least the title of the thread is still accurate
I will bug report should I muster the will to believe they’ll change it soon
