Skitarii - Your Opinions?

yeah but then you actually play the game or worse look under the hood and the need for objectivity collapses

mk3 butcher push gates the combo to single target which isn’t the end of the world with slam, but it still has 450 power scaling on that attack instead of the usual 500-525 so its still worse than Mk4. it just exists

rashad has finesse scaling giving it barely better damage and attack speed, on like the same moveset otherwise. achlys would be cool with sweeping moves but with 0.01 hitmass, its just working against you.

arb shield with bashes in the light combo (the single target light set up one) has enough cleave to fight horde on the light combo with their buffs, better access to the stronger heavies. I usually use the sweeping swing one but its kinda irrelevant when it comes to maximizing arbites’ sort of medium melee damage from shields.

heavy sword should literally only be used because it has first-shot target damage into two enemies on the strikedown swings, which the vertical swing can’t take advantage of nearly the same at all. and then one has better lights than the other, gg.

combat blade has no special combo, you just have a heavy attack you can hold after it. the only thing that keeps Mk3 in the game at all is that they put the power scaling of the other attacks on it and not H3. but combat knife is literally made to backstab in game, otherwise its worse dueling, so not using the one able to do that better is throwing. and 6.5 cleaving heavies that do basically the same-ish damage into everything is a lot better than 0.01.

Mk4 chainsword will literally take several additional revs to deal with anything, and it doesn’t have a strikedown heavy to at least chip for a bit stronger damage when revs aren’t available. it isn’t just a moveset preference thing, its just dumpster ass with the same special commitment time and basically 1/2 damage.

Illisi has only sweeps and nothing to lift armor hitstop like a power sword, its such a power man’s version it isn’t funny. and now just spamming lights with force greatsword makes this thing not exist, and it has the crowd-and-elites wave to charge up and can still dumpster crushers. though that’s me shading force greatsword. Illisi is supposed to still be a single-target oriented weapon being 1H force sword, but its just eggs at it and the special is stopped often by elites in melee.

even with hive scum’s push stamina I was having a struggle on the actual use case for Mk12 chainaxe because it ends up doing so much less damage overall besides like crits and thrust? its an oddball but you can fight hordes very comfortably (and kill elites with those same lights) so it isn’t all bad. its just when you are dealing with so many chainaxe-specific downsides already the light spam makes it much safer to use, for better results.

counters are pretty gimmicky vs actually killing besides the rapidly-attacking bosses/elites you can loop on. its just better to kill more efficiently with the same heavy move set up, have better lights and no need to worry about throwing out strikedown-esque moves (on something that rips like a blender it does help). the best note of the dueling 5 is mobility, at which point you’re actually directly comparing to the knife with another 0.25 sprint economy.

devil’s claw it basically doesn’t matter but as far as I remember one has better finesse scaling again, so really you should just do that one.

for the most part this system is an illusion of choice it’s up to the player to decipher. some of them are immediately obvious (scandar is just terrible achlys power sword), some might seem close but you find either a fat shark moment or gameplay flow requirement that doesn’t exist on the other variant. I don’t mind the guns because its actually multiple different weapons mostly, but the melee weapons have been such obvious bloat for forever and then they don’t even balance them internally either. and we’re asking for more class-specific melee marks which are the worst balanced ones right now (and why I focused more on those than the plateau of mostly mediocre weapons that are shared besides a few outliers).

well i’m aware one of them is usually the best choice from a performance angle, the point of my post was to share my angle that i don’t actually care about that a lot. they’re different enough to the point where one will feel good to me and the other moveset i won’t like.

sometimes they suit a specific build better too. the mk12 chainaxe for example is more suited for a weapons specialist with revolver build than the mk5, since attackspeed scales the horde clear lights more. the mk5 is better for martyrdom zealot since he can juice the damage and attackspeed so much that the lights start actually oneshotting elites and very quickly, but on other zealot builds i go for the mk12 because i don’t have quite that much as+dmg scaling

in this other example, i am aware of hypothetical performance but i still often like the mk3 bull butcher more than the mk4 knife, it actually is different and has talent interactions the mk4 doesn’t have, and even if it didn’t have that, i might still just like the moveset more. more choice is good, having 2-3 variants of a weapon is a good thing.

like when it gets down to it, you said for example this

if we didn’t have weapon marks, the mk4 is all we’d have. i think it’d be a worse game even though i like the mk4 more just cause the swings feel better, i still did have fun using the new one for a while and messing around with it, and it adds something people who aren’t me like better, and it’d be a better game if there was some variety within the arc maul too

i’ll agree it bloated in the past but nowadays you can just swap marks in menu so it’s fine, it just adds customization and caters to different preferences. the only improvement i can think of would be actual customizable movesets.