It’s a lot easier for Fatshark to bring down the beam staff to a reasonable level than to having to buff all other staff to make them more or similarly useful. For now, there’s no reason not to use the beam staff, it’s without a doubt her best staff.
I think the problem is more that Sienna’s other staffs are kinda crap than beam being too powerful (and yeah it is a bit.) Nerf beam and why bother playing Sienna anymore with her other lousy weapons? Something else needs to be buffed to be useful enough to replace it.
My suggestions right now:
- Reduce damage of beam staff in general to make it more of a CC specialized weapon. Possibly remove beam blast (or make it do only knockback and no damage) or make the shotgun less spammable.
- Give bolt trueflight back, but only on full charge and require LOS targeting to lock on.
- Increase accuracy of both conflag and fireball primary fire
- Increase charge speed of conflag AOE
- Significantly increase damage of fireball
I agree with your idea of group play and how everyone char have their own roles. However, I think you aren’t getting what the OP and everyone who is asking for a balance are taking about. They are asking for a change so that there are more “viable” classes to be utilize in a group comp. Like one comment mention that when Sienna is using the beam staff it feels as tho it is crippling the group. The fact that there are 3 classes but we only see the beam staff at high level tells what the most optimal class it is. Like in your comment you are talking as if Sienna is the only dps in the all 15 classes and that all other 12 classes should just protect the Sienna so that she can dps. I think that’s what the community is frustrated about because the other dps role character seems/obviously outclassed by Sienna. On the other hand I do think it is ok to have one defacto best class for each character and often called “meta” in most games today. I think the best way to solve this problem is for FS to introduce rotating meta in form of seasons. That why the game will feel fresh for everyone because new team composition will allow every characters/classes are given their time in the spot light. Lastly, in my opinion just because there is a downside to every upside doesn’t mean that the character is balanced. For example, in d3 the crit wizard at one point perma freezed everything in the game. Even though the wizard was a “glass cannon” it didn’t matter because he never gets hit. English is my second language but hope my explanation show the some of the complains that other non-Sienna players feel about the current state of the game. Also, everyone should just wait and see what FS will do. The game only came out like 2.5 weeks ago and I bet developers are taking in all the feedback from the community and looking into a solution. Cheers
I love the Beam Staff and have ever since V1. They already made the “shotgun” blast riskier to use. I won’t like Vermintide as much anymore if the Beam Staff gets nerfed into uselessness (that’s not what is being proposed here but it is my fear). It’s a really fun weapon to use and I play with plenty of other players that beat me in kills. I find that teams like having me around with my beam skills. Maybe that’s because I don’t go out of my way to steal people’s kills, and I try to help the team. A teammate that can shut down specials is a GOOD THING, and someone you want in the tough spots at your side
Been playing for a couple of days now and I already see the problem the original post is making. Anytime i group with a Sienna with Beam staff the game just becomes less fun as your doing more watching than melee since nothing reaches you. Needs either some tuning with the damage or heat generation.
Yeah I think beamstaff is good at everything. I don’t care that I don’t get green circles at the end, I care that if I have beamstaff SIenna in the group, I don’t get to participate in the game. She easily staggers/kills hordes by herself, can one shot specials/SVs, stunlock chaos warriors, do great boss damage, and pick of specials with her class ability. All without ever having to risk swinging a melee weapon. I have a Sienna at 30+, I’ve done this myself, it’s not fun for anyone else in the party.
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Uh can’t most classes with infinite ammo for ranger/bh and dwarfs guns/fire cannon? Kruber is the only one that i think gets the short end of the stick.
I think all ranged needs to be looked at but especially Sienna and the beamstaff given its good at everything.
yeah i agree (I play Sienna but i’m not kill hungry… when hordes come my group finds a spot to hold 2 directions with me holding one b/c i can and the other 3 hold the other way and if i have nothing coming my way i sit there and afk watch my direction to make sure nothing get us from behind) b/c my friends will just play tankish champs and just block/crouch while I kill everything.
I’m leveling Sienna right now with beam staff and it’s fairly indicative at even lower levels of issues down the line. The utility of it all really does make it less fun for others to play. I personally think the biggest issue isn’t that it can burn/stagger hordes to clear them or has a shotgun in point blank with enough stagger that even specials get sent back. The real issue is the m1+m2 explosion. The ability to eliminate specials so easily in addition to everything else is the problem. Really, killing specials and elites in vermintide is the major source of fun, so if 1 class can handle all specials/elites with pinpoint precision besides chaos warrior (which the explosion can do a decent job against) with unlimited ammo, that’s not fun for everyone else.
Honestly, removing the explosion to make it a long/short range CC staff and it’ll differentiate itself enough from bolt staff which was the OG special slayer with some anti-infantry long range power. People who dislike the idea of touching beamstaff are also the ones that use it overwhelmingly because it can do everything for them (which is called ‘fun’) at the expense of everyone else’s enjoyment.
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Get to legend\champion …your melee teammates will get plenty of enjoyment.
Removing her ranged blast? Yeah I can live with that if everything else stays untouched.
However…then what’s the point of flamethrower? or fireball stave? They need to be tweaked and buffed.
They wont.
On Legend, Sienna with a beam staff can literally walk against a wave and shotgun it in its entirety to death.
Yeah I’ll be honest, the Beam staff is just too good.
Its the best at everything.
Bolt staff should beat it in Single target damage… Conflag should beat it in AoE Damage and Stagger… Fireball should beat it in AoE damage. Flamestaff needs to beat it in Cone Damage. Beam should be the middle of the road BUT its got both Single Target burst and AoE Cone superiority with almost no overcharge generation.
Its ONE staff does it all… and too well. The other staves need to be brought up to snuff and the Beam Staff nerfed.
EDIT: I suppose I should clarify here… I also play Saltzpyre… and all of his weapons with one exception are varied in their effectiveness against certain targets.
Rapier:
Hordes: Excellent
Armor: Average
Shield users: Poor
Really its only good against Hordes and Garbage mobs, but can be used against armored with charged hits. But is seriously handicapped against Shield Users to the point where they can stalemate you. But you can practically walk through a horde swinging with this one.
Falchion:
Hordes: Good
Armor: Good
Shield: Good
Not as good as the Rapier at hordes. But is functional and can keep pace. But is really good against armored and shield users and chops right through them as its Armor piercing. Tends to get used a lot because of this. Rapier is better in Hordes, but this one won’t handicap you against other targets.
Axe:
Hordes: Poor
Armor: Excellent
Shields: Excellent
Superior against Armored targets and Shield Users. This thing chops through them even better and faster than the Falchion and does more damage… but is so bad in a horde clearing because it only hits a 1-2 targets, you are just as handicapped with the Rapier against Shield Users. But it is significantly better than both Rapier and Falchion on these targets.
Each one is best in a certain situation. That’s not true of any of Seinna’s staves. You have ONE staff that’s excellent at everything with none of the others able to even compete.
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Beam staff with ult cool down on Crit means your ult is up multiple times per horde.
The beam staff struggles in a group that doesn’t know how to support you with it. Since it zooms in you lose peripheral view so you can get hit from behind easy. That’s its only down side. It’s good at sniping and horde clearing. Its frustrating playing as Sienna and watching people dive in front of you to hit the horde, then get surrounded. Sienna is my third character I’ve leveled and feels the most powerful and versatile. I did Bardin and Kerllian first. I find Bardin to be the most fun though.
Sienna is, imo, the one true pure ranged class of the game. WS should be Special Sniping and “some” ranged, again imo. I’d rather see some of her other staffs buffed before this one gets nerfed. Increasing the rate of overcharge is probably the fairest nerf with this staff though.
The other issue, which I’ve said in other threads, is we can’t switch out weapons at the start of a level. Since Beam is the most versatile staff she has its the safest choice to use during Quick Play.
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That’s presuming it’s the only horde coming at you, no specials, no boss etc. which is hardly the case on legendary.
Nope.
There will be many waves where you’re free of specials, and Sienna can RUN AGAINST IT and kill it by her self with the beam staff. If there’s a packmaster or somethin’, she’ll stagger it.
It is dangerously strong and makes the game boring for others in the party.
Talking about Bardin here? IB with Drakefire Gun? Or Bardin with 2H hammer?
If everyone else except you is OP, then I have bad news for you. Sienna can do anything but not everything all at once, skill is still required. And if others feel useless and are bored, well then maybe they’re just bad. By just nerfing everything to hell nobody will be able to play Legend anymore.
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How are they bad if they evaluate that the situation is properly handled solely by Sienna’s beamstaff and await ready in case something goes bad? To me that seems like the optimal line of play assuming their assertion of the situation is correct? Or do you suggest they charge into the horde despite Sienna seemingly being on the top of things?
If you evalute, that you’re useless, then you are. Sienna’s beam staff is strong, but I’ve seen plenty players that can’t handle anything with it.
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Assumptions galore, my friend.
Sienna is seriously strong with the current state of the beam staff, to the point where everyone is just watching Sienna’s back because she’ll take care of everything.
Walking against waves with beamstaff right/leftclick without having to stop
it is ridiculous and needs a slap by the nerfbat