Shouldn't Heroic Intervention work on push?

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Feedback
1

Hi,

I’m a casual player loving this game and doing legend runs today in order to accumulate enough red items and red dust for all my characters. I like to play a bit of everything and try out builds that I found interesting or that I create myself.

I learned about Heroic Intervention working on backstabbing ennemies . I found this great, since I read many disinformation about the trait only working on some disablers. With a friend in vocal on the modded realm (in order to spawn ennemies at will to calmly test it) we tried to work out the conditions to trigger the temp HP buff on regular ennemies.

For context, I was using a handmaiden with the spear and shield, on a full support build with the heal share talent at level 5 (hence my desire for some temporary HP gain with the heroic intervention trait).

We found out that only ATTACKS, and not PUSHES, trigger the Heroic Intervention . We just tested it so it is true, and this fact is very sad and makes no sense to us.

If it is a bug, then it should be fixed of course.
If it is the expected behaviour, it would be great to tweak it to add pushes for the trigger to happen.

  • First, pushing a backstabbing ennemy with your melee weapon should be considered as “assisting an ally” as the trait states, since the attack is still interrupted.
  • Second, the icon from the Heroic Intervention talent is showing something like a shield blocking a sword attack, shield being more of a defensive item like the push is a defensive move.
  • Third, the push is generally easier to pull off and interrupt attacks, which will greatly help with the trait viability.

For the build I wanted to use the trait, (handmaiden with spear and shield) the only useful attack to save a teammate being surrounded is the first heavy attack, which takes time to charge, time I can’t afford to take when my intention is to heroicly save a teammate. So since the light attacks only target a single ennemy, my only viable option is to push them.

I WANT to use the trait. But as it states, I just cannot use it effciently, as many other people state. Everybody I know call it garbage and suggest not using it at all, and that is a waste of a trait. And this is sad.

If the trait was improved or enhanced, it would have more viability and would see more play, making your build a real choice instead of being kind of forced to run another trait because the one making sense for your build does not work as intended.

4 Likes
2

Wow so you got it working at all, nice! I have also read all the stuff that it only works on disablers etc, but the code for it clearly reads that attacking an enemy that’s attacking a player from behind procs it and of course then went and tested it with bots. Bots had it equipped and I let them get surrounded but could not gain thp even once. That was quite some time ago though, cool if it actually now works even to the degree you say!

3

It used to be disablers only until literally a patch or two ago. Now, it triggers if you attack an enemy in the middle of a backstab (the slow wind up attacks they only use from behind) toward an ally.

Still a garbage weapon trait, since if the team is playing well everything is too dead to get behind your ally in the first place.

4

I think, Heroic Intervention needs to be tweaked even further, if we want it to be usable by anyone.

Even with “health on killing backstab attacks” it’s just still unreliable. In a good team, you would go entire sections of the map without it getting to proc even once. Which means it would be still “not as good as Swift Slaying”.

5

Imho Heroic Intervention should be totally reworker… for example it could give a huge damage reduction to downed mates (dying status)… useful (I hope, I still have some doubts) if you are playing a tank/support career.

“tHP on push” is a good idea too… it could be a kind of tHP on cleave. I mean: you get tHP attacking, should be ok obtain some tHP on push too.

6

It really should work like it did on the first game. “Aid” there meant you hit an enemy which was about to hit a friend. You would also get a nice audio cue, which, imo, went a long way in promoting co-op gameplay. You were rewarded for watching a mate’s back. Ofc it’s something veteran players keep doing, but I never understood why they removed it, or more importantly why they broke that trait so badly.

PS to be fair the vermintide 1 ability (safety in numbers) was hated, but that was because it was accompanied with a bright flash, and the extra health wasn’t worth it being blinded :stuck_out_tongue: but other that that it was functional

7

Yes, it definitely works :wink:

However the window of action is VERY short :

  • If you attack ennemies behind your ally preventively, you don’t get anything.
  • If you attack ennemies behind your ally too late, you don’t get anything (and your ally is certainly going on the ground in legend+ difficulties if he’s not blocking)
  • If you are pushing backstabbing ennemies behind your ally, you don’t get anything
  • If you attack backstabbing ennemies but it’s not enough to make them stop the attack, you don’t get anything

The temp HP gain is too low to be worth it for random single targets once in a while (especially now that temp HP goes down VERY fast). It really only nicely works during a horde (since you can both gain for instance 60 HP at once if your attack interrupts 4 backstabbing ennemies), but that requires either that :

  • your teammate is surrounded, and most player will avoid that so no luck to trigger it anytime soon
  • your teammate is reckless and don’t care what’s hitting behind him, then you may not want to play very long with this player ^^’
  • your teammate and you are coordinating (by vocal) so that he can block and turn its back to a horde when either or both of you are needing temporary HP, at the risk of him being killed if you are too slow to heroicly intervene
  • all ennemies attack at the same time and not one at a time here and there
  • the ennemies you are targetting are actually attacking your ally and not yourself (if you are face to face with your ally, it is not obvious to recognize the target of the ennemies attacks behind your teammate)

Enabling the Heroic Intervention on pushes would vastly help its useability and the occasions to help. Especially when the pushes (especially with shield weapons) are strong and actually more able to interrupt attacks when light attacks may not be able to do so.

As I stated, the heavy attacks are very often slow to start, and it means that you often have to charge them before the ennemies even attack (to interrupt them before they hit) and you end up mostly hitting idle rats because they did not decide to attack. But if you wait for some rats to attack, the time you are charging your heavy attack and it’s too late for your teammate.

Moreover, the pushes are redirecting the aggro from your teammate to you, thus you can’t infinitely farm temporary HP with way to exploit this, since after the first push, the ennemies won’t attack your teammate anymore but yourself.

I don’t know why pushes don’t work. They should, in my opinion. It would greatly help this trait to have more success.

As is, there are too many restrictions on the talent for me (and for many many people) to use it and that’s just sad and a waste of nice teamplay potential and original support builds with healshare talent still being able to grab some temporary HP here and there to play a nice healer role in the group.

For additional information : I think that Heroic Intervention works if you are using your career ability on disablers. At least it works for Handmaiden ability (at least with the Bladedancer talent), I tested it ingame with a leech and and gutter runner. I don’t know if your career ability works on backstabbing ennemies, and I don’t know if all career abilities are working on disablers either, these are tests I did not perform.