This just sounds to me like you don’t like the Ogryn’s playstyle. If you want to do everything, I recommend switching to the Vet. The Ogryn is very much the support class of the game with his skill set and weaponry, they are there to stun, stagger and knock enemies down for your team to take care of the rest. You can kit out to do damage, and have plenty of options for them, but you can’t do all well at the same time. That isn’t a problem with balance exactly, but more that you just don’t enjoy the Ogryn’s intended playstyle, so I don’t really see a reason to change that when it is unique enough for the Ogryn to be an addition to the team. Obviously the ranged guys on higher level are overtuned, but I don’t see a need to make the support class an all-rounder to fix that problem.
Ogryn has high mobility thanks to his ult, and I try to use it to tie up ranged enemies in melee. I don’t see that as being not an Ogryn playstyle.
Ogryn needs a lot of love.
He’s more often than not a pincushion.
A single volley of burstfire weaponry tears through toughness.
The only recourse I have with my zealot is to charge in the fray where I’m safer.
Poor Ogryn can’t really do that.
You get shredded on approach.
The only recourse to a group spawning, is engaging th em before they disperse, brace, and open fire.
Once they open fire, the entire area in front of them is a no-go zone
A situation that happens quite often when it comes to both Zealot and Ogryn with their charge is due to the distance to get ranged enemies into melee I have to keep pushing forward.
If you stop for a second the ones just outside of your range will grab their gun and tear a new hole for you. Regardless of “skill” issues being thrown around it’s just plainly frustrating.
Get to group A to get them into melee, then group B is just around the corner and gets pulled when you are there, you can’t turn back because they will shoot you so you have to go forward and get them into melee. Then group C around another pillar sees you and the same process keeps looping.
rarely causing wipes, but it just isn’t fun. Imo we should get more ways to get enemies into melee or at least increase the range of our presence to force them. At least both Zealots and Ogryns could use an increase of it. Vet and Psykers don’t really need it.
I disagree. Getting killed in melee is very rare and only occurs through two situations:
- You fail at positioning.
- Your toughness gets drained prematurely through ranged and midranged shooters, which subsequetly causes you to take to much direct health damage.
Ogryns also only get dangerous through either you failing at positioning - meaning having no ground to perform a fighting retreat on - or ranged minions draining your toughness instantly.
Granted this is more of a general statement and not necessarily a direct response to you, though the tone of your comment resembles the sentiment I am aiming at, which is why I thought it worth mentioning regardless.
I am in favor of giving each class at least one weapon that is able to sufficiently deal with ranged targets, which would enable more build flexibility and allow for better load management among the classes. The counter argument, which I read most often to that, goes like this:
- Ogryn is a meat shield
- He is no ranged class
- That’s the veteran’s job
or even better - there is more than just killing stuff in this game (is there though?)
The part that annoys me about this particularly is that it basically excludes an entire class from the fun part of the game (killing sh*t), because of an overly rigid persistence on roles. Even if the Ogryn had a weapon that could deal with ranged threats - including snipers - that still would not make him a ranged focused class, as his entire remaining kit is not centered around ranged as opposed to the veteran’s.
Honestly I do not think suppression is working at all at the moment or at least not for enemies, where it would help - like shotgunners. You are right though that a visual cue might make that more apparent, though I am unsure if Fatshark would be willing to break their vision of “immersion” for gameplay’s sake, as they also were never willing to natively implement a display of the dodge count.
Well I think this is the crux of the problem. The game as it is requires decent cover play at times, but the game being played as a cover shooter is also not part of the Developer’s vision. So we either need to drastically improve cover or make dealing with ranged threats in an aggressive fashion more feasable. Personally I am more a fan of the later as I do not particularly enjoy having a mexican stand-off upon entering every second room even with improved cover.
Thanks for the response.
I see 3 separate clumps of multiple shooters. Two of which combined is 5 different shooters that could be knocked down with one grenade. You’re also standing out in the open like a moron with enemies actively shooting at you. A side dodge to to the left would have let you have that box as cover, reload, and knock down most of them. (Though why you’re running around that part of the map with your gun not loaded confuses me)
You’re whining, plain and simple. That shows me a failure of positioning and planning, not an issue with enemies.
puffs cheeks Actually… you’re right, me failing there was my fault. No one ordered me to rush into that huge arena with a knife in my hand. But, and whether or not that is a small or a big but depends on your point of view, those shooters that you see on the screenshot were spread out like that to begin with; they didn’t start out as one or two clumps of enemies.
I’ve shown that screenshot mostly to poke fun at Zoralink and his “groups of random enemies tend to spawn in clumps”. Won’t try to argue that this was anything else than my own failure.
If the game is limiting a class to a single weapon by design, we have a huge issue.
What about a ogryn passive or pickable trait that is increase melee aggro range.
So everyone knows a basic part of playing melee is you can force the shooters to draw melee weapons and attack you where they then become pox walkers except the rifle bayonet guys.
Just make that (I think) 3-5m aoe around you like 10-15m passively or for 10 seconds after you charge in.
All of a sudden your position against gunners becomes the most important thing. Then to get in close and stop them shooting is the biggest help to the team.
Personally I’d prefer enemy riflemen to simply have their melee combat range increased across board but that’d be fine too. Really, anything to make fighting them less frustrating.
If you play an ogryn, it’s not your job to kill them. It’s the job of literally anybody else. Your job is to keep anybody else alive and safe from more immediate threats - Ragers, ogryns, melee swarms.
It can be difficult, but that’s the charm AND PURPOSE of these guys in the game.
Seeing how punishing shooters are for my Ogryn self on Heresy+, yeah, I am starting to lean towards your approach. If my choices are between standing still and charging into what will be either pain or pain and death, my first instinct is to charge in but I’m learning not to do that. And I hate it. This is a Tide game, I should be effing running into melee and messing them heretics up, not waiting for others to pew pew the pew pewers.
Keep telling people its their job to ensure that everybody is having fun besides them. That’s sure to get them on your side of the argument.
I mean, kudos for at least admitting when you screwed up.
That said you’ve missed my point. I’m not saying they’re always one big clump. I’m saying ranged enemies typically spawn with several together; prime targets for a grenade to the face from that conveniently located grenadier gauntlet. You’ll find things go significantly smoother if instead of expecting to just charge in you knock them around, then move in to mop them up for toughness from kills/momentum/confident strike. One of my biggest things that I say to myself while playing with random veterans is “Nooooooo, please stop shooting them before I can approach/grenade them” as people get trigger happy and aggro things, causing them to then spread out.
I’m going to guess in the case of your screenshot you moved in after they were aggroed at which point yes, they will spread around some, though even in your screenshot it was entirely controllable if you had approached it better. (And without just cowering behind cover) This annoyance applies to both my zealot and ogryn. That particular room can go very differently depending on if your team aggroes them prior to letting you get closer or not. All that said again, an important stat to note is the suppression on the grenadier gauntlet/rumbler. When firing it near enemies if they’re not already in cover you’ll frequently send them scrambling. That’s your time to move in. In the screenshot’s case, again, if you had fired at one of the clumps you’d likely have knocked around at least 4 of them while sending 2 more going for cover.
I am literally trying to help you be a better player and teach you things. I’m not going to pretend I’m doing it in the nicest way but just… ugh. You’re literally just giving nothing but sass even while admitting that you’re at least partially just complaining. I would link more raw gameplay in general if I thought it would do any good but again it seems you’re not interested in that if it undermines your own personal outrage.
Once you start thinking in ogryn mode you’ll be launching grenades in ways specifically to knock around enemies exactly where you want. A frequent fun pasttime of mine is launching bulwarks on their butts by bouncing a rumbler grenade off the ground in front of them to blow up directly behind them. If you consider knocking enemies around so that you can then move in and hack them to bits “un-ogryn” then I’m not sure what to tell you.
Damage on average ranged enemies is way too punishing, their ability to pin you where you’re standing with suppression and their sheer accuracy all need to be toned down.
And also the AI behavior on who they target. I swear there are times an entire squad gets the same order to shoot the same person and they just get lit the **** up. When it’s a squad of 12 guys that just stepped out of a doorway behind you, you just feel like you’ve been singled out and ruined.
In other words, you want them to turn this game into V3. I personally really hope this will never happen. This is Darktide, learn to use your ranged weapons and abilitys like anyone else. Dont rush blindly into the open, use cover and flanking tactics. In other words, git gud and dont try to ruin this game instead with your quetionable requests. The ranged enemys were already nerfed a lot and are fine now.
Please Fatshark, dont turn this game into a mickey mouse s…t show, just because some players are to lazy to learn to play it.
The shooters were spread out like that before we’ve entered the room.
Accuse me of sass more.
Doing things like that is beyond my skill, sadly. Maybe if I practiced with Rumbler a lot. But I’ll get back to that.
That much I know, but again, they were spread out the way the screenshot shows even before I’ve charged in. Wouldn’t help in that particular situation.
Again, I do that already, been doing that for a long time. Wish those “clumps of shooters” were actually clumped more often, instead of being spread out because someone went in before me or because they’ve just spawned that way.
As for Rumbler, I know some people love it, but I don’t see why. One powerful but difficult to control projectile per reload causes me more pain than its worth. Grenade Gauntlet can knock down enemies more or less just as well and there are four of them in magazine.
Edit: adding the picture of Rumbler that I own. It is similiar to those I see people who think they are good enough to post their builds online using. I like how easy it is to add pictures to posts on this site.
