Hey, I made that 
4 Likes
Agreed. Each career brings something to the table. They have pros and cons. All these nerf threads always fail to mention what other careers have that the one they’re complaining about doesn’t. When Shade went through that short time in patch 1.0.8(I believe, before shortly after fixing the unintended side effect of their change) where her damage from active couldn’t even kill a Chaos Warrior and tickled bosses, it felt horrible. You wondered why you even had an active. It has been said time and again; the people that post these threads do not consider the ramifications of their actions. This is especially true for long-term ramifications.
I never see these threads heavily consider what the other careers have and make well-constructed points as to why they want the change they do. It’s always “They’re too strong” or “They’re too weak”. More importantly, you’re not considering what you feel versus what may be the reality of the situation. It is clear through this thread and the other massive one that it’s generally accepted that Shade and Handmaiden are okay right now. With the exception of sprucing up some talents, they’re fine. But the sprucing up of talents can wait until they get a better handle on the current state of the game(e.g. bugs, crashes, audio, and other game breaking issues).
@SmokerT69 @Revy 10/10 truth.
8 Likes
Well it’s in my meme folder now.
8 Likes
What weakness does she have that require such an extreme amount of damage as compensation? I can only think of the low health, which is irrelevant unless you have a heavy weapon. She even has one of the best disengages in the game on a low cooldown. Everything else is very decent.
Sure one could argue that we should just buff everything else to the point of Shade, but that would remove the cooperation component from the game since everyone would be able to just do their own thing.
That’s not to say that some classes and weapons aren’t underperforming. Some are quite bad, but that’s a separate issue.
Why can’t we find a middle ground?
A charged daggers headshot with ult would still save you 2 or more charged swings on a CW, which still makes the ult very worth using, specially for the short cooldown.
But the ability to solo a boss within seconds with just one potion is insane. Maybe the solution could be lower initial ult multiplier, but bosses would get a big non stackable DOT on top so a single ult hit wouldn’t feel as unimpactful, but you wouldn’t be able to spam it. The ability to stun with her ult could also give her team some utility.
This game isn’t about solo performance, but about teamwork and bosses are one of the biggest thing that puts it to the test. Remove that by making the biggest threats deletable with little effort from only one person and you’re mostly left with chasing green circles. With that you also remove the need to improve, so you also remove one of the biggest reasons to play the game.
1 Like
Didn’t say she had a weakness, I said other people fulfill other roles better.
That’s not consistent with most other classes though. Every non overpowered class has strengths to compensate for their weakness - real weaknesses, not just “someone does that a bit better than me”.
Shade however is good at everything while she also excels at removing the biggest threats in the game. On top of that she also has a great multifunctional ability with a low cooldown.
all im hearing you say is that they should return huntsman to 1.0.7 huntsman.
Dual daggers = trash at horde clear unless you’re a god that has a TON of free time to play and can dodge whip around like a pro (I’m not, maybe make a mod that tones her down for you pros?). Yes, I get it, those that are god tier can do it ALL, but the average person that only gets 2 hours max a day to play find shade to be niche boss killer/cw killer and that’s it.
4 Likes
whoa, been gone for a few days and this monster of a thread pops up. shade able to kill bosses in 10 seconds someone says? sure, let me see u pull it off in random quickplay legend games(all games, not just 1 or 2 while giving excuses for the rest), i expect that any boss that pops up, it dies within 10 secs of the shade engaging. i’ll even discount the times you don’t have pots on you, to be nice. also, 100% of the damage needs to come from the shade. no external help, since shade apparently doesnt need it right?
ugh. the level of exaggeration. unbelievable.
9 Likes
bruh thats what im sayin’ yo
6 Likes
ME,ME,ME,ME and don’t forget… ME…
Don’t like someone being shade?
Why don’t you pick an elf career and block the spot?
“The people you play with” suggests non randoms, does it not?
Ask them to not use shade every game, if that’s not possible for you to do, that means they are randoms and you don’t feel comfortable asking, if that’s the case, u can’t presume it makes the game boring for all of them…
What happened to the kick button? If that’s not an option, again non randoms…
Do you see my point?
Stop complaining about stupid green circles, its quite clear what was your motivation and it’s not boredom.
1 Like
That’s what I’m saying: where did shade touch you? No, I’m not some ultra legend runner that takes zero damage , so being in pug groups I’m not seeing the problem. They. Hit. Boss. Hard. That’s all I’ve seen beside a ghost revive, or oh shat I’ve wandered away too far. These folks should just please just play something else I guess. Nerf road is a long and shitty road. Let’s not go further than we’ve already gone.
Edit: obviously not talking to you particularly, just the rantings of a mad man 
1 Like
No character should be allowed to IK chaos warrior on Legend or delete boss in a few seconds even with potion. If you dont see a problem here you are probably playing her too much. The only thing you can do with that (if you want still atleast some challenge on legend) is to kick them out of your game or leave games when they are present until FS finally nerf her.
1 Like
Not even patch notes have your back there, and a few well aimed bombs can still instawreck a cW patrol, let alone the horrible things it can inflict on poor SV patrols, we can’t have that happen either now can we?
If you want consistent hardship and challenge in your groups prepare with 3/4 at the very least and just purposely limit yourself… I pointed out before that people don’t seem interested at all in boring drags of fights with cw’s and bosses that extend so far that it only makes for frustrating moments rather than challenge. I have 97 people in my friend list that play this game, I’d wager maybe 1-2 would want more challenge and that most of them would just take that from mods since it doesn’t mess up the rest of the community that way.
I like how the argument in this I always either someone not playing it or playing it too much…
I can see the issue with never playing it
But do you really want it balanced by people that don’t regularly play it?
??? Am I missing something?
Have you missed all the constructive points in this thread?
2 Likes
Okay, this is really getting nonsensical to the point where it’s not even funny anymore. “I play a pre-made with 2 friends and after pumping 400 hours into the game, everything is so easy and not challenging anymore!”
Well gadzooks! Fry me from both sides and call me a Schnitzel, what a surprise! Who would have thunk that pumping hundreds of hours into a game would result in someone becoming good?!
I also like how you are constantly refering to “broken builds” people need to bring along to “compete” with Shade (compete in what exactly? Boss killing?), everythin is broken for you when it does what it is supposed to do, heroes are broken if they are capable. Okay, how about this: You and your awesome friends equip blacksmiths equipment and then you can go full regalia in your quest for making YOUR game fun for YOU again! Then nothing is broken anymore!
On a more serious note, we are going in circles now. Only difference is that I don’t feel the need to call everything “broken” when it becomes effective. Really good players wreck stuff, no matter with what. You can build WHC into a boss killing machine if you wanted to, like seriously, give him a strength pot, a volley crossbow with hunter on it, pop your active and watch the boss melt faster than even a BH could. Yes, Shade can melt bosses away. I can totally see how HS Kruber was too strong after the damage calculation change, but first of all, he didn’t need any kind of potion for it and second of all, it did indeed not work as intended. Her boss killing isn’t that far of from other carreers that can do what she does, only difference is that she is the only one who has to get into melee range for that. I don’t know, seems like a good trade-of.
4 Likes
We need a deed modifier that cripples the heroes, gives them default Alt movement speed, 2 shields and only decaying grey health. All at the same time.
Honestly that mentioned though, I’d expect the people that post that you shouldn’t be able to oneshot a cW on a class designed for it that they only play deeds.
Also re-reading all the posts and not sure when this stinginess was added but I consistently play Legend for better or worse and it’s always better with voice-chat and you’re talking to someone in a private discord server dedicated to inviting people to play with and voice-chat with… Even then in a coordinated group with good sensible people most classes will excel. Heck why do you think it’s all fun and fine to play with a level 10-20 on legend in a premade? Or the black-smith weapon nonsense and the back to basics modifier?
That’s because coordinated groups will always have an edge compared to when they wouldn’t make use of such. Especially with the lack of built-in auto-block while chatting.
1 Like
All you need to do so in quickplay is a concentration potion, and bosses will fall over flat.
Not so much a boss.
No career should be able to do that, it doesn’t matter if they’re focused on single target dps; Shade already destroys elites and that is great, but a boss should be a bigger threat then a chaos warrior or stormvermin. I’m not saying make shade do zero damage, but with dual daggers right now the damage is unlike anything anyone else pulls off.
2 Likes
So let me see if I understand this thread so far, People are upset that the “assassin” character can…assassinate…??? I can kinda understand that logic. I have a friend who’s a cop. And he always gets really upset whenever there’s a house fire. Stupid firefighters always get to fight the fires, getting all the glory. I mean, a cop could fight fires. It’s not the cops fault they don’t have the right equipment to do it. Perhaps the government should remove some of the firefighters equipment to make it more fair for the police? So they’re a bit more on even ground?
I hardly even use the Shade compared to WS or HM. I personally don’t like her. But she does not need a nerf, I have never out preformed my average games on WS with a shade. If I go try hard on the WS I can pump out around 15k damage a game. Shade does not even come anywhere close. Not to mention my hagbane kills bosses nearly as fast as the shade with zero danger of being hit if I can kite it for a few seconds. I have 20% boss damage and 10% chaos and skaven. That’s an extra 30% damage on bosses and the hagbane is already the best boss killing weapon in the game, besides perhaps some of Siennas weapons with potions. I can do just as well with the HM and hagbane as well. I just have to make sure I land headshots so I don’t lose any ammo.
If someone is taking dual daggers on a shade, they are gimping themselves on hordes. And they are pretty much screwed anytime more than 3 enemies surround them. Not to mention a BH will kill every single god damn elite before you can even get close to it, if he’s semi competent. Sure, they do a shít load of damage, but that’s the trade off. Stop crying.
This entire thread is cäncer. Can we please focus on something far more important. I saw this on the steam community page, and it needs to happen. Can we get some crowd funding going for the modders?
7 Likes
Who thought people on these forums can be so toxic. I’ve had more level conversations about League, but that was years ago… Don’t envy the CMs here.
If anyone wants to discuss this calmly with with arguments beside insults, pug experiences and “nuh-uh” competitions, I’m all for it, otherwise I’ll just post a final recap here:
Shade is very strong and has no apparent weaknesses compared to other classes. She makes the game boring to play in a coordinated groups on legend, because she deletes the biggest threats on her own with almost no effort while her ult allows her to stay clear from danger. The biggest problem seems to be ult damage, mostly when combining it with the concentration potion and daggers, which makes it free nuke with almost no skill required to pull of.
Elf already has a great kit available to her where aside from the 2h sword each of her weapons performs very well, with daggers being the strongest, which can (contrary to popular belief here) even decimate hordes with proper mechanics - hopefully this doesn’t change as they do feel great to use. But also having a high damage nuke with stealth on a low cooldown that can be cheesed with conc pot on top of that is overkill.
Some however believe that she’s just right because the game is difficult enough as it is on legend when playing with a uncoordinated group, which seems like an unhealthy basis for balancing the game around.
I guess it comes down to the devs and the direction they want to take the game in.
1 Like
Counterpoint;
Slayer destroys elites and specials too, especially if we look at people at the same competence as the crowd saying “balance around the best players only”
AND they get to be very resilient and mobile in return while their main weakpoint is lack of ranged and not so much anything else. Boss damage? By no means bad. Not comparable with shade but hey, shade isn’t as tanky and packed with automatically built in stuns to reset entire groups of enemies and then finish them off while they’re on their ass. A proper slayer can eat a few boss punches if they have to where shade would be on their ass already.
Bountyhunter destroys elites and specials too, and has the tradeoff that he takes longer to kill a CW and has to aim consistently to do so despite bodyshot being a thing most cases. Can also be built to demolish bosses.
Kruber used to be able to, but he could at some point do twice as much damage in half the time with a potion, if not without.
Bringing him back a little would’ve been fine, but again, people had their way there too and look what good that did. Moderation is key when balancing.
If shade ult wasn’t intended to let you deal with heavies it’d just be stealth, but let’s face it that’s what the louder people here would prefer the class ends up with despite the fact that they’d probably not even play it then.
They want more challenge, and think nerfs to shade will accomplish tha. I say wait for deathwish mod to hit and get sanctioned before you make tantrum threads like these with negative-stance provoking titles.
Damage caps and potion requirement with decanter currently keep shade well in check and force her to commit and engage with a boss to reap rewards. If people would have their way here shade ult would be reduced to just another charged attack rather than a tool to take out big threats before things get out of hand.
2 Likes