Shade needs to be brought down

No.

Reduce dual daggers ambush damage with shade active to be more in line with other weapons, it is outrageously high damage right now and no one can match it. Kerillians other weapons, that is.

It isn’t teamplay if one player out of four does all the damage to something as significant as a boss.

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When I take DnD for my Handmaiden, my ult doesn’t do twice as much damage, as well as WS volley doesn’t magically shoot 6 arrows when you equip them, yet Shade’s active gets a +100% bonus with them for whatever reason. Can you tell me what makes Dual Daggers so special, that they can increase active’s damage by 100%? And if you think that such behavior is balanced and fair, then let’s decrease Pyro active cooldown if they carry Flame staff or buff BH active damage if they’re carrying a 2h swords - for balance purpose of course. That would be sooooooo reasonable.

Also stop pretending that DnD is just some kind of gimmick weapon, that is playable only because of Shade’s ult. It is THE BEST elite annihilator in the game and it gives your character unmatched mobility unlike other hard-hitting weapons like axes and hammers.

And if you personally can’t kill 3+ enemies with daggers, then I don’t think you should be posting on this forum, because your skill level is clearly not good enough to understand the game.

Also:

Guess why:

The first one is called

combined with Straw Man.

The second one is just plain rude.

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I’ll see you in the next thread about bountyhunter builds being broken then if they nerf shade. And it’s been stated multiple times that anyone is already participating in a boss fight be it the boss or the horde or the armour pulled by the horde or the specials. The boss is just there to punish you for poor priority. Arguably anyone can solo a boss and shade is just specialized to do so in melee.

If the combat system was deeper and the bosses more engaging then sure I’d side with your point but right now they’re all fun and challenging till you get to legend and grind another 300 hours when it gets repetitive. Then you get skilled enough to quickly and cleanly deal with a boss. Alone if you have to.

Again I say, look a RC first. Maybe conc potion since it’s new to this game as much as shade is, then tackle the class. Nerfs to dagger would make them feel a lot more unrewarding again. For a few games shade was out of hand when you could 2-3 shot bosses before the damage caps but that’s no longer a thing and even doing 70-100% boss damage solo is based on at least semi ideal scenarios.

Edit: this is also assuming that nobody else contributes in the meantime. I’ve had plenty of situations where I had to switch from the boss to elites and specials, and by the time I was done the boss had been killed just as fast with plenty of hp remaining when I left it.

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I see reading isn’t your strong point and English is obviously not your mother tongue.

I’ve already stated in the last thread which was locked,

The glaive has been nerfed a lot already lol. Even with a shade using her ult, you have to time it so the second hit of the heavy swing connects with the target for around 19-23k damage. Meanwhile, sword and dagger or daggers hit massive amounts of damage, I can’t even count it all.

I’m not disputing the daggers and S&D do way to much ult damage. But that is not what the thread is about. People are calling for a nerf across the board. Which makes this entire thread cäncerous and similar to what happened to the huntsman. People who hardly use the class or don’t use it at all for that matter. They see shades “deleting everything” in pub games are getting upset because it’s messing with their green circles. That’s what this boils down to and what makes this thread cäncer. The daggers are in a good place and the only thing that would need to be tweeked is their ult damage. But really, it shouldn’t matter anyway because Fatshark put damage caps on all bosses, at least they said they did.

As for name calling?

Again, I’m assuming English is not your mother tongue. Saying that people are upset that the “assassin”(AKA the Shade) can assassinate is not name calling. And telling you stop dripping salt all over your keyboard is not a “straw man” argument.

No. As stated multiple times, the problem lies with ult damage and the ability to delete the highest threats with it with little effort and skill required.

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So, now you reveal something.
You think I would be upset or disappointed when bounty hunter received balances, when in fact I welcome it. But you don’t welcome Shade being balanced. Going down this route reveals to me you are too involved with the career itself, rather than the actual outcome of allowing ONE career to do such outrageous damage in the span of a single potion.

So why do you want bosses to be killed in 10 - 15 seconds if it is repetitive (presumably you imply easy)?

No, all needed would be to remove the outrageous damage multiplier that goes alone with shade active ability. It is too powerful, no one career should be able to remove the threat that is a boss within seconds, we’re supposed to cooperate against threats, and a boss is much more than just a wave or an elite, the health bars bosses have is a testament to their difference.

And is still out of hand, specifically with dual daggers. Why should only some careers be balanced to encourage cooperative play? Why is elf sacred?

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Nice joke, tell me plz, how well SnS or Spear are? You don’t want to understand that w/o some gimmicks like Shade’s ult all weapons with little to no armour damage are just garbage on legend, I’m not saying they are non-viable at all, but often you just have way better options, and picking those weapons just gives you disadvantage.

And for the 1h Sword, did you ever tried it? It’s lights are slower then Glaive, has poor damage, also it has near useless light 3, that should be cancelled almost every time.

Btw, I think that now Elf has realy OK melee options, comparing to other characters, but saying that all her weapons exept Wardancer are good is just a mere lie.

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Good to see you getting stuck over my words again. You continue to echo the same in a thread about nerfs to the entire class and try to justify it by saying YOU only want certain things when it’s clear others want the whole class to be just as well deleted terms of what makes it engaging.

I’m also not obsessive about shade, I’m counter to anything that makes the game a drag while being counter to things that are clearly broken and bugged.

Bountyhunter is in a good state and I play it a lot, I play all classes a lot. But by dry logic melts bosses too quickly and solo. I’d hate to see him nerfed but admitting to all these threads will get everyone generalized even if it’s not YOUR intention.

Now excuse me, I have better things to do than repeat the same Loop with you 30 times over, it’s not worth the battery charge on my phone at this point. I just know I’ll definitely quit if requested changes are implemented like they were with kruber. (edit:fix of poor spelling.) Not because i enjoy shade but because it’s simply a step in the wrong direction and concedes to loud vocal individuals.

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Moar toxicity please!!!

No one, I repeat NO ONE in this tread is calling for a all out nerf for Shade except for OP.

Moreover, there isn’t hundreds or even dozens of people here, that say DnD is too strong. Three, there is THREE people here who say that DnD stealth damage needs a nerf - me, @anon26183726 and @totallytim. Yet you manage to generalize each and every of your statements!

Moar cäncer, moar generalization, moar

They put multiplier caps, not damage caps. You show your poor understanding of the game yet again.

Of course it’s not. It’s called being an a**.

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SnS gives you the ability to hit multiple things with charge attack as well as a safer horde clear option compared to DnD so you don’t really have to trade blows if you’re not comfortable with that. The headshot charge attack also isn’t too hard to aim. Shields can kinda ruin your day, but the charge attack makes up for that imo, specially on shade which can kill 2 elites at the same time.

Spear gives great horde clear and enables you to stand further away. It gives a mini dash on charged attacks, but is harder to aim for headshots, which makes it more difficult to use vs armor.
Both however lack the ability to deal with CW and that’s absolutely fine.

I agree 1H Sword could be slightly faster. It gives up some of the horde clear ability of 2H swords, but has an excellent overhead charge attack that make it very easy to kill elites with. A great option for waystalker.

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For the third time - I run SnS on Shade, it’s super great. Notice me senpai! Or not, because who wants to have a conversation, when you can just ignore other people words to prove your point?

cough Longbow, cough cough WS ammo regen.

I constantly run 1h sword on Handmaiden when I get tired of DnD. It has less single-target DPS, but it has a very strong stagger and it’s better for clearing groups. Overall it’s pretty playable. Not top tier, but playable.

As for canceling attacks, EVERY weapon in the game is used best when block cancelling, except some that only have 2 types of swings.

Also Spear is only bad because of ghost hits.

Summarizing unlike other classes EVERY elf melee weapon is playable. They have different strength, but ALL of them can kill mobs. You have to compensate for their weaknesses with ranged choice or career, but that’s exactly what you do with any other character.

You’re not reading if you think I’m calling for a nerf to a entire class, unless you think dual daggers/shade is all there is. That is some serious misrepresentation right there. I have repeatedly stated I want to keep shades damage against elites, and indeed against bosses with every weapon EXCEPT dual daggers that have a damage multiplier too strong right now.

In any case, I’ll happily echo it again because it isn’t getting through, as much is clear by you misrepresentation of my stance. When one person, a single career/weapon loadout in a cooperative game can removes a serious a threat as a boss within the duration of a single potion, and no one else can do the same, something is wrong.

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You’re not reading if you think i did not address that this goes beyond just your opinion as many say differently I suggest reading my entire reply before answering like you did with my previous one where you quickly snipped and attacked one portion of it.

I’ve said what I wanted to say however, I won’t spend more of my time echoing the same words over, I’ve tried to reason with some people here and even proposed things but they seem more intent onbeing right towards individuals than to addressee the topic as a whole which is arguing and not discussing.

Who is right versus what is right.

In case it still wasn’t clear, read some of the aggressively toned posts that want her nerfed more and worse than you propose. You address people “defending” it but not people make exaggerated claims.

I’m done wasting my time here, I’ll see what the thread ends up cause and react appropriately. I dont come here for arguments I want to get somewhere with a topic.

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Yea, exactly, your calling for a nerf to her ult and her damage, instead of simply tweeking the daggers. The majority of the critics in this thread are calling for a nerf across the board. From boss damage, to weapons to her ult, to even specific builds. It’s not even just daggers, people want the hagbane nerfed and so on. This thread is cäncer.


As for you Mr @NikKotovski. Gimme some moar salt plz <3 You are rather entertaining… Saying reading isn’t your strong point was not toxicity, it’s a fact. Considering the thing you were calling me out for I actually agree with you on. And as for people calling for nerfs across the board, I have shown above. From hagbane to ult damage to daggers, etc.

This is directly from fatshark.

“Overhaul of damage and stacking damage buff/multipliers”

“Importantly though, we have fixed elements of and overhauled the rest of the damage system for the release of Vermintide 2. A result of this should be far more balanced burst output, no more melting bosses in seconds”

“Yes, we cap and scale your powerlevel to get a nice smooth ride across the difficulties.”

“we’ve just made sure that all powerlevel buffs are applied after we actually cap and scale you

So after reading that, I assumed there was “damage caps”. But then they added this in on the end, “No cap on Legend.”

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Yay, senpai, tell me plz, why you take only a few words to quote? I know that SnS in prety OK on Shade, but it’s not a weapon that’s good, but career that makes it good. SnS deals 8 damage with heavy headshot to armoured enemy, and how many armoured elietes do you see on an average leg map? Spear has a little better while dealing with armour, but now Elf got only 4 good anti-armoured weapons: DnD, SnD, Glaive and 1h Sword.

And you still deal 8 dmg with heavy headshots to armoured…

And again, I’m telling you that weapon that works good only on 1 career can’t be “good”, coz it’s not the weapon’s strength, but career’s.

Ok, If you think that 4 charged headshots to kill SV is fine then it’s OK, BTW Halberd (that has the same reach, can deal with hordes quite safely too) need push-stab +1 light headshots to kill SV, and it has no problrms dealing with CW, and all this w/o using heavy attack.

Yep, but Glaive is still better for WS, and in general.

I played a game with Kruber’s 1h Sword and Handgun as HM, so it’s a decent weapon, and all other Kruber’s weapons are very good on legend, don’t you think so?

Some closing words. It seems, some people don’t want to notice the difference between “playable weapon” and “good weapon”, just like my Kruber’s 1h Sword, I can compensate his lack of ARP with HM’s ult and Handgun, it’s a fun weapon for me, and I can be effective on a legend with it, so yes, it’s “playable”, but not “good” at all.

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@Nilter

SnS - great horde control, relatively easy headshots with good damage, safe, you have the option to equip longbow or repeater crossbow to murder elites and specials. What more do you want from one weapon?

Spear - Great horde damage at distance, fast, easy to use vs hordes. 4 charged headshots or rather 2 full combos is absolutely fine to kill stormvermin, specially for the range. Again you have the option to equip longbow or repeater crossbow to murder elites and specials. What more do you want from one weapon?
Also comparing it to one of the most imbalanced melee weapons in the game (the halberd), seems hardly fair.

1H sword vs glave - sword has more stamina, a greater dodge distance, infinite dodges and can spam the good heavy attack with block cancelling, whereas the glave has to do the bad heavy attack first. All these seem like very worthwhile pros.

All of these weapons are very usable and combined with a proper ranged option makes the elf a very well rounded character with very few weaknesses to begin with.

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Some weapons work better for some careers or in conjunction with particular traits or other weapons. As for SnS you can easily compensate poor armor damage with Longbow, WS volley, Shade ult… or even leave armored enemies for your teammates.

Why do you keep ignoring Longbow again and again by the way?

Yeah, and compared to DnD you can clear waves with closed eyes with Halberd, while having the same armor damage with push attack-attack combo.

DnD is weak at one thing, SnS is weak at other thing, what’s the point of comparing them to the most OP weapon that’s good at everything.

What?! 2h sword and shield n mace are good at legend?

You’re confusing “good” weapon for “universal” weapon or even “OP” weapon. 1h Sword is a “good” weapon, as well as SnS as DnD. They have their weaknesses, but they are better than universal weapons like Mace or 2h Hammer at their respective main fields, with exception to OP Glaive and Halberd.

Which is simply not true and it won’t become so by repeating it over and over again.

You need to make up your mind, is it about how exciting thins are or how difficult? It is also a gross misrepresentation of the stance the other group of people seem to take. It is not so much about difficulty as about what you consider teamwork and how fun it is to fight bosses to people. To me, bosses are a nice change of pace, but they are not that intricate in design that I desperately need to fight them longer or if I am not a boss killer, I don’t neet the feeling I only contribute if I can also deal a bit of damage. Also, considering the game rewards quickplay, it kinda shows that yes, indeed the game is at least somewhat built around the idea of playing with non-premades.

Only thing I truly agree with you on.

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Then please make a compelling counterargument.
A popular opinion seems to be that DnD have bad horde clear which is simply not true. Dodge dancing enables you to decimate hordes, specially with the weapons ability one shot every trash mob if you wait for the dot. Most of the time you don’t even have to do that if you go for headshots, which are easy enough to land once you get used to it. Yes you will probably trade some blows in case of dense hordes, but it doesn’t matter considering how much temp HP you get back. If push comes to shove you can always dodge back and shoot 2 hagbane arrows at them which will give you ample breathing room. You will also be able to get those two arrows back on roaming enemies with backstabs. Sure this isn’t your “I picked up daggers for the 1st time” skill level, but it isn’t exactly hard to pull off once you got used to the range and crosshair placement. She wont be able to hold back a horde like a hammer would, but she can easily stand on her own unlike some other classes with other weapons. Also dodge dancing with fast weapons is something people should try to get used to after they reach champion.
The main problem with the horde clear are phantom hits, but that’s a bug and not something that should be compensated with insane damage vs the biggest threats.

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I already have, see above. DnD is not bad at horde clearing, it is okay, yet you keep claiming it is above average. Above average compared to what?
Other than that, she is still a squishy melee character that has more or less the same ranged limitations as any other and needs to be geared towards super boss damage the same way any other carreer needs to be geared towards certain aims if you want to do the “amazing end game stuff”. Dodge-dancing is of course a mandatory skill, but again, working perfectly as intended. This is a melee-focused game, remember? You are essentially complaining that a kit that is designed to do what it does works perfectly in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. The same case could be made about almost anything.

I know you’re not really trying to say that, but in the end, you are asking to nerf skill.

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