Are you really telling me to spend less time on legend? XD I expect to be rewarded for playing well, I’ve solo’d bosses just as trivially on a few other classes as I have on Shade. Namely Sienna and Bountyhunter Saltzpyre. The only real threat is the constant stream of specials that seem to spawn even during bosses most of the time. The boss is just there as a massive hitbox that slaps you around and punishes you if you don’t know the basics of dodging it which I should expect players to know when playing Legend or to quickly learn thereafter if they want to succeed consistently.
If you want it more difficult there is mods, as the devs truly stated.
All these characters had their own niches since VT1, classes expand upon that - giving them all equal or similar number of strengths and weaknesses is fine but that can be achieved just fine by buffing the weaker ones before nerfing the outliers to at least ensure first-hand that the niches aren’t tarnished. Otherwise we might as well all start playing Ironbreaker and Pyromancer. Or no. Battle-mage and WHC. The arguably most underwhelming classes at the moment compared to their counterparts.
I’ll also add I’ve been saved by many clutch zealots after getting wrecked by silent patrols. That flailing hero needs some love but he’s not as bad as people write him off either. He doesn’t go well with my playstyle however but I have a few friends that swear by him.
As for BH damage, I just pointed out that BH still wrecks bosses especially with a str pot.
Yes all I hear is that her strength needs to get nerfed. Shade does have weaknesses, she isn’t the instant “i win button”. She is squishy, she has very limited ammo for her admittedly strong ranged game, her good boss killer weapons do lack in CC (which you can support with your active, but dual swords and SnD isn’t exactly halberd, y’know?) and even with CDR, she can’t take out every single armoured elite with a face stab. She is a strong elite killer, but so is Slayer, with which I see people pulling equal or even better numbers. Y’all seem to entertain that playing shade is the “I win button”, kinda the same everybody claims beamstaff Pyro is, or HS Kruber was, or BH is or this is or that is.
Imho, there is only a handfull of carreers that are truly lacking in viability, most prominently WHC, BW and maybe Merc Kruber, all three of them not being as bad as their reptuations are, they just need alot more effort to work, have underwhelming, boring and simply not that fun to use actives or only truly excel in one area while severely lacking in the others.
The buddy I regularly play with, we run a Bardin and Kerri setup (NOT Shade ) and we absolutely melt through bosses too. Just had a Chaos spawn oday that lived for maybe 20 seconds, it couldn’t even get near us, it managed to attack exactly once. You could argue that it was two players and not one, but boss killing, we do on the side, not as a priority. Shade’s boss killing needs to be strong because that’s her identity. I simply don’t see the point nerfing it just so others can shoot and stab the boss a little, too. I am glad if a good Shade runs with me because I know I don’t have to worry about attacking the boss much, my job is to make her do her job. Why change that? Why not let her kill the boss quickly if she has the positioning and the items for that? What is there to gain if she does her con-potion thing and then the boss is still alive and I have to fight it now from range? I really don’t understand.
I literally had a person from a 2man premade run up to me today with a conc (which I personally don’t spend much time looking for) asking me to please deal with the boss because he absolutely hates fighting them and finds them frustrating. I regularly have people throwing them my way even when I try to decline them and I never ask for them. Honestly I tend to just pick up Speedpots instead so others can use whatever they want. But my point with this is that I frequently see people view bosses as frustrating moments rather than ‘‘OH YAY A BOSS Lets whack it for FIVE MINUTES and hope we get ANOTHER ONE LATER DOWN THE LEVEL : D’’
[I dont play the career and know nothing about it but I see it making green circles and I dont like that so please nerf - the thread]
Its Huntsman all over again.
People who just dont like teamplay and turn a koop game into a passive aggressive deathmatch, where you cant kill the other players to win but outplay them againsst the KI, concealed under the veil of neckbeard elitism.
This not CoD, League of Legends or WoW Arena and if you seriously think that group effort is that everyone has the same damage numbers and tactics like extreme specialization are forbbiden, well veteran is that way.
People in quickplay tend to just want to have a good time, even on legend - yes that includes hardships and wipes and lost games but most of my groups will audibly sigh when they hear a boss spawn. A lot of groups complain some levels are too tedious or too long as well.
Do we really want to make it more difficult and more slow just for the sake of it? Can’t you just run premades without said classes and have your difficulty ramped up that way? Or mods? I don’t know?
Mind you I was on the group that wanted Kruber nerfed but I 100% disagree with the way it was ultimately done, it was WAY overdone in my opinion and I sincerely hope they come back on that. Deleting bosses in 2-5 seconds flat was stupid but they went bloody HAM on their nerfs instead of just reeling him in a little.
My point now is lets stop and think before we nerf the fun out of the game for everyone. Let’s get the weaker classes up first, including reverting some of the kruber changes where needed, and then see if there’s still problems.
And lets have a look at resourceful combatant while we’re at it - simply reworking that may suddenly make a lot of other classes more viable even if it means they temporarily have to run the new RC to make it possible.
You clearly said you want to put less effort in to the game but achieve the same results. If that’s your main argument for Shade needing to stay the same then your problem is fundamentally different from mine.
Also Pyro and BH are another can of worms that need their special attention, but Shade still outclasses them.
Unless you’re a “tank” class HP doesn’t matter because you die in one shot anyway. Small hits are easily traded up with her ability to generate temp HP. Shade has very decent ammo sustain with the ammo on backstab talent and her horde clear game with daggers is above average.
I wonder what drawbacks the Slayer has to compensate for his damage … hmmm…?
Because the game gets boring way too quickly if it isn’t a challenge.
Thank god she’s no “I win button” and she requires some basic skill, but she’s one of the the closest things to it we have.
I’m sorry what??? Have you actually played him or with him? Have you ever played in a decent group that uses voice chat in the most basic way?
It is kind of stupid that only one or two people in the team of four are the ones that actually play this huge aspect of the game. Boss battles really should be team efforts. On paper, why does that make sense? One character will do 30%-50% of boss damage in huge chunks. What is the purpose? How does that make for a good team boss fight?
In this game, some classes have the damage and others don’t. It’s not a case where everyone has conventional damage and classes have special abilities to use. Some classes have significant extra damage as their special ability and it’s just so lopsided.
Very early on in the game I wondered why the wanted boss fights to play this way.
Not gonna say anything about Shade because that’s balance and I think it’s been stated and it’s pretty plain that balance in this game is not in a good way right now.
And I don’t play Pyro. It can be done just fine on BW/Unchained, the bosses themselves are trivial enough - bugs aside. The environment is the real threat. Your group has to handle that, the real threat. The person with boss-focus handles the boss and people with damage help that person unless there’s nothing around and everyone can pitch in.
Slayer only really trades in versus really awkwardly spawned specials on slopes it cannot reach, besides that it kind of just messes everything up in melee range when properly specced and the knockback and general tankiness allow it to handle practically anything else the game can throw at it down to patrols if he has to.
Sure he doesn’t do the same BOSS damage as shade but shade can’t go toe-to-toe with a horde and all the elites inside of it all at the same time as cleanly as Slayer can either so lets not go there.
I’ve had my fair share of 0-40 dmg taken Slayer games to attest to that and plenty of good slayers that have outperformed me on a lot of things besides boss damage - most notably special/armour damage.
Bosses are, by and large, hard on the edge between being a challenge and being absolutely bogus. You can clearly tell that bosses are not meant to be that big of a challenge all by themselves considering that the game pretty much guarantees a horde spawn with the boss. The boss on itself is almost never dangerous, it’s fighting it in a horde. The game literally incentivises you to dispatch of the boss as quickly as you can, it is telling you: If you don’t kill it fast enough, I will throw more sh#t at you.
Heck, if you really wanted to, you could turn Slayer into a boss murdering machine. Dual axes push-attacks deal a truck-load of damage on bosses. If you don’t have the aggro, you do your heavies, if you do have the aggro, you keep boss in place and dodge-push-attack it in the head until it dies. Maybe I’ll try that just for the lulz one day (when I get red dual axes, that is…)
Quoting your whole post because this all comes down to niche and specialization which is kind of a philosophy used when making classes in the first place.
Unchained is a mixmatch of melee/ranged, that can readily get into the thick of things but lacks the bonus ranged damage, pyro fulfills the caster class fantasy, battlewizard idek what they want to do with that.
Bountyhunter does a ton of ranged damage and enough to sustain in spars in melee combat, can even have infinite ammo if you build for it. WHC needs some love, Zealot can be amazing but only for the most zealous of all heretic-slayers and could use a bit of love too. They all have their own class-fantasies however. They all excel at different things, or are at least meant to and if they aren’t require tuning.
Every class doing everything equally would make for a very bland character-lock-in however and would essentially mean you could all just as well play the same character if not for character-lockouts.
Yes, indeed it does, the game actively punishes you for taking too long with bosses by throwing more and more enemies and eventually a horde or ambush at you. And I never claimed I couldn’t do that, god, could you stop it with that needless elitism of yours already? I simply don’t like gimping myself, if I play a game, I play it efficiently and indeed try to find my personal meta on how to overcome obstacles as best I can. That’s why there’s all these items and abilities in the game, you know?
This has been the case since VT1 however, where you even had to deal with several at a time as an intended game-design. No doubt to test your mechanical know-how and ability to deal damage while being under attack.
Yes… it does…? It’s common knowledge that the longer you take in this game the worse the AI director will treat you.
You’re just not getting it, it was never about all careers being able to do everything, stop distorting the topic.
We’re talking about shade doing one thing exceptionally well, and undoubtedly too well in a team based game. Why shouldn’t team mates help keep the boss busy? Right now, Shade can just destroy bosses within the duration of a single potion.
Honestly, with attitudes like this it seems instead to me that people don’t like having strong, perhaps even too strong aspects of their favored characters be pointed out.
I mean, really?
) and we absolutely melt through bosses too. Just had a Chaos spawn oday that lived for maybe 20 seconds, it couldn’t even get near us, it managed to attack exactly once. You could argue that it was two players and not one, but boss killing, we do on the side, not as a priority. Shade’s boss killing needs to be strong because that’s her identity. I simply don’t see the point nerfing it just so others can shoot and stab the boss a little, too. I am glad if a good Shade runs with me because I know I don’t have to worry about attacking the boss much, my job is to make her do her job. Why change that? Why not let her kill the boss quickly if she has the positioning and the items for that? What is there to gain if she does her con-potion thing and then the boss is still alive and I have to fight it now from range? I really don’t understand.
It’s common knowledge that the longer you take in this game the worse the AI director will treat you.
