Scoreboard is making this community TOXIC

[gpkgpk]

Again, if you want to see the toxic behavior that’s bubbling under the surface, say something after the 3rd or 4th incident of clear selfish anti-team behavior that’s causing issues for the team.
“Hey, could you leave me some ammo please? You were only missing a few rounds and I’m in the red.”
“Hey, could you stop running ahead please? It’s creating a lot of problems for us including you getting netted/pounced” etc. etc.

You get the gist, it’s often enough to trigger them because they usually know exactly what they’re doing, they just don’t give a kark; they’re the main character and you’re there to help them get the highest damage (done) circle.

If you don’t say something, the troll usually won’t either and they’ll just continue on their merry way being stealth jerks, while silently self-pleasing themselves to the only scoreboard stat that matters to them.

As a social experiment, do it on the next obvious trolls/selfish-make-everything-worse jerkholes and see how it goes.

IMHO people are way too lenient for constant, repeated stupid and anti-team (troll) behavior, that’s why they multiply. If they haven’t figured out NOT to do that crap on Aurics they deserve a call-out and not a silent acceptance; silence = “yeah I’m OK with being an NPC in your game”.

[circus1943]

Got about 1000 hrs played, never had a scoreboard mod issue after game. You are either hyper unlucky or hyper sensitive mate.

[NihilistZealot]

What’s actually toxic is a Gunpsyker (psyk-unner?) Brainbursting a burster while there’s a teammate nearby and no other enemies resulting in needless corruption, then when asked why they’d do that their response is “shut the f**k up” like a petulant child, and the follow up retort is “why would you run at a burster I’m targeting with bb it shows an aura around the head” as if a simple push isn’t literally always faster and safer WHEN TEAMMATES ARE NEARBY.

[NihilistZealot]

I ended up blocking 2 people in one Damnation match I played earlier quite literally because of this. One was a selfish player and a rude dickhead to boot (see above); the other was worse than a bot.

[Licher.Rus]

Scoreboard mod DOES NOT related to the community toxicity

But GAME DESIGN itself does.

When players in the same TEAM are FORCED to COMPETE with each other (ammo pickups, elite or specials kills for class mech or toughness regen etc) then it can only produce UNHEALTHY environment long before the end of the mission, where you can see that Scoreboard.

[RasMoti]

i agree, but somehow this is also the grimdark of wh40k for me.
The most difficult is to build a good team, especially with randoms.

before i pick something up i look at my teammates, do they have ammo, do they need health more than me, do they have grenades…

[Argonaut14]

Scoreboard mods existence disproves all the lies about how toxic a scoreboard is:

@Fatshark_Hedge

Feedback received.

That said, the mod exists and you can indeed use it as you already are. Your needs are met.

We have also received a fair bit of feedback that the mod alters the way they play the game, and in a way they found to be either a detriment to their enjoyment or a detriment to cooperative play.

We have also received evidenced reports of players who use the scoreboard mod specifically to attack other players’ playstyles or contributions.

Ofiicial position.

Last line is key to this current discussion as evidenced reports of players attacking others convinced FS that a scoreboard wasn’t a great thing to add, but as Hedge says, your needs are met if you use the mod and I agree with increasing the limit on the amount of people you can block.

And of course, the world in general is slowly filling up with mentalists and nutters on an undreamed of scale, so it can only increase the amount of online morons. Who knew.

[Keln]

Consider that the “silent majority” usually vastly outnumbers the vocal few.
People happy with the mod will probably not mention how good it is.

IMO the first thing that creates toxicity, is having a name attached to who killed what.

Seeing your name pop up next to a long kill feed is satisfying.
Getting all your kills ninjaed is not.

They don’t want competition, yet some of their design elements are directly creating competition (killfeed, achievements, ammo pickups, heals…).

If anything, on a personal note, the scoreboard & UI mod have helped me consumme less ammo pouches, waste less healing stations, and be overall happier with my result, because even if I don’t have top damage I still contributed with special kills, plasteel, or rescues…

[RasMoti]

@Argonaut14

the world in general is slowly filling up with mentalists and nutters

You are talking about all those people who do not want to develop into a better world, but would rather take a step back in history?

@Argonaut14

increase the amount of online morons.

the amount of trolls in the internet increases because the mass of troll content increases and it’s an echo chamber of negativity bias.

[Forsion]

They have evidence, yet they decided to not share it in the most heated and large argument, besides crafting.

I don’t think simply referring to authority, that say they have something but not showing it,
is a good argument by itself.
This same authority is responsible for current crafting system and many other controversial things.

It’s cool that they convinced themselves, but they forgot to convince community.

[Flawless]

@Argonaut14

Last line is key to this current discussion as evidenced reports of players attacking others convinced FS that a scoreboard wasn’t a great thing to add

That is bad logic on FS’s part though.

FS created a system where most players have no clue how good or bad they are at the game, because they receive no feedback.
People unknowingly play on difficulties far beyond their skill level, dragging everyone else down with them.
This is real toxicity and it makes for a bad experience for probably most players who are not happy to carry a team through the difficulty they play on.

As long as only a few people can see player performance due to a mod, they might feel the need to tell bad players that they are bad, because this is the only way they could find out.
If there was a scoreboard integrated into the game, bad players could see themselves, that they are bad. No need for other players to tell them.

---

In pretty much any field (school, work, sports,…), people receive feedback so that they know how well they perform. Their performance is either evaluated by neutral and objective standards, or by how well they perform in direct comparison to others (maybe a combination of both).
This is what enables people to understand how good they are at something, and to apply themselves accordingly.
Most people are very bad at judging their own skill at something, and tend to overestimate themselves (especially if their skill is relatively low).

Imagine a team that is made up of random people (anyone can join).
The team is given a challenging task.
Of course, the team is supposed to perform, but if it is made up of random people, there are gonna be some of them who are skilled and some who are unskilled at what ever they are supposed to do.
After repeated failure, the skilled teammembers are likely gonna be mad, when the unskilled teammembers do not deliver and drag down the entire team as a result.
Being mad about that, is not the skilled teammembers being toxic.
The toxicity comes from the side of those who join the team, despite not being skilled enough for the job at hand. This might be due to them being malicious, or more likely, due to them being ignorant about how well they actually perform.

You can blame people for not knowing how good they are at something, but at the same time, how are they supposed to know, if nobody tells them, and if they are never shown how they perform in comparison to others?

The lack of a scoreboard is likely causing many problems as well as more toxicity than a scoreboard would.

[RasMoti]

@Flawless

they might feel the need to tell bad players that they are bad, because this is the only way they could find out.

Well thats the Toxicity some speak of.
If not asked to be rated, rating other people is obviously toxic, but i know many won’t agree on this, it’s just a lack of empathy and communication skills.
Everyone educated knows that you should not rate and belittle others.
The reaction you will get is mostly resistance, because it’s not constructive feedback someone has asked for.
Instead it is the expression of someones frustration about his expectations of others that did not met.

@Flawless

If there was a scoreboard integrated into the game, bad players could see themselves, that they are bad. No need for other players to tell them.

true, but maybe some see it more as a team effort and not a competition who did best.
As long as someone is not a burden to the team he still provided something to win.
Doesnt matter what or how much exactly.

[Keln]

I’m a good skier. I ski with families and groups.
Sometimes we have guests.

If we see a beginner going down a black slope, and that everyone has to wait 40min watching what is obviously not a fun experience for the beginner, we will tell him. It’s in no one’s interest to have that new skier not enjoy the experience and other people wasting their time.

There is no danger in a video game. But wasting other people’s time is… very annoying after the third time.

edit:
And it’s also about gd dmn respect for other people.

[RasMoti]

It’s non of your business, like in traffic and how others drive their car, you dont know why, what and who he is as long as he doesnt endanger anyone else.
Of course you can speak to him, tone matters, ask why and what and maybe if he is willing to have your feedback, give it to him.
This way its constructive, other way its only selfish and like i said.
Your expectations werent met and so you feel the need to mock about someone?
I hope not! because also like i said, you will only provoke an agressive reaction, because you communicated agressively from the top down evaluating.

Believe me this his what cause 90% of banter and aggression up to violence.
you can see it all day out in the streets on TV and of course in the internet.

[Keln]

It is my business, as I’m investing time and effort in this.
There is no I in team. But that means everyone must do their part.

I’m never gonna call anyone out on their performance. But I understand the frustration some could go through.

I also believe in constructive criticism. Help the player improve, teach him the ropes.
But on HITSG, I can’t even take a second to drink a sip of water, let alone write a monologue and teach a new player something.
On a normal intensity mission you wouldn’t care what a player does, but past some point, you expect players to be able to perform.

That said:

Think first what you could do yourself before asking others to step up to do what you could not

[RasMoti]

i hope your expectations about others mostly met, else you will have bad times more often.

[Keln]

Well, surprisingly they are
People just need to take a chillpill.

Failure is part of the process, and so is criticism, learning and ultimately success.
Just need to be open to facts first.

[XeroShinobi]

The only time I reference the scoreboard mid/post match to randoms is if they feel the need complain that I’m not doing x enough. On those occasions, I’ll happily bring up the cold hard stats demonstrating that I was in fact doing everything, all the time, often near or above the combined team total.

[Tempest_yo]

@Keln

Think first what you could do yourself before asking others to step up to do what you could not

I only focus on this part.

People aren’t open to constructive criticism unless they ask for it.

You can be well meaning, but it won’t matter because as constructive as your criticism is unless they are open to it the only way it’s going to be interpreted as is just … well, criticism.

If someone shows up that’s bad on my team I don’t roll my eyes I simply see an opportunity to flex my carrying muscles. Another baked in difficulty spike.

[XeroShinobi]

Yup, aim to be good enough to carry a couple of bads. Applicable to virtually every PVE game.