Rework - Deed Synthesis

Another poorly beaten horse and one I personally don’t have interest in because I find Deeds as whole rather uninteresting. Still better than Twitch though. But since it is something which is asked repeatedly, I thought a bit about it and want to suggest the following rework here.

As a small pre-text. Design decisions in Vermintide 1 & 2 have shown over and over that Fatshark doesn’t want to give the player complete control in what he gets. There is most often some kind of RNG involved. This can be seen for weapon upgrades in Vermintide 1 (both rarity and percentage of trait triggers) as well as for rerolling traits and properties in Vermintide 2. It can also be seen by obtaining hats for the longest time only in commendation chests by RNG and Deeds are still only obtainable by chance. As such I think any suggestion to replace the current system should consider this aspect of game design, even if the player doesn’t like it. But I also think there can be a compromise of both.

In this sense, witness the awesomness my mad Paint skills:

Here we have my rough idea, copy pasted from different menus. For explanation:

Main Screen (yellow frame):
Mostly for flare, however here you can chose the number of Deed Modifiers. Will influence the cost of Scrap, Weapon Parts, Toolkit. 1 Modifier costs 100, 2 Modifiers cost 110 and 3 Modifiers cost 111.

Modifier Chance - Section A (green frame):
In here, the probability of the different modifiers can be changed. Upon chosing the number of modifiers the starting value will switch. Let’s say there are 8 possible modifiers and a Deed with 2 Modifiers is chosen in the main section. Then all probabilities will start with 25 % and the game will RNG through them (random order) until it has two successful rolls for a modifier. The probabilities can be changed either increasing them (up to 100 %) or decreasing them (up to 0 %). The total value of 200 % (in this example) can’t be changed though. By this the player can target specific Modifiers or remove those he doesn’t like. However, the further the probabilities are moved from the starting value the more green dust has to be paid. So with all on 25 % for example it would cost 10 green dust, increasing two modifiers to 100 % and the rest to 0 % would cost 200 green dust. This way, there is the chance for customization, but the more specific you want it the heavier the price (like really heavy)

Map choice - Section B (blue frame):
In here, the probability of the map by DLC can be changed. Same as before the different DLC’s start with equal chance and can be changed. The more from the starting value it differs the higher the cost in blue dust. It could be discussed if players can synthesize Deeds for DLCs they dont have. This would give them the chance to experience a random map of this DLC (by setting the value of that DLC to 100 %) at the cost of a lot of blue dust.

Difficulty choice - Section C (orange frame):
In here, difficulty is chosen. This is fundamental, so no RNG. The higher the difficulty, the higher the orange dust cost.

Total synthesis costs will be listed in the down section.

Reward (not shown on the image):
Reward will be decided by difficulty and number and type of modifiers. As some modifiers are more difficult than others they should be rewarded slightly more. However, the greatest influence factor on reward will be allowed RNG. This means the more the probability is changed from the starting values the lower the given reward will be. This is simply to prevent one modifier set becoming the new meta farming. If you want to have Vanguard/Seek & Destroy on a Drachenfels map with 100 % probability your Deed reward will be far lower than letting RNG decide.

With the suggested system in place, it would give players the chance to create Deeds at their own expense, independent from loot boxes. It would also give purpose to the ressources players have gathered over the years. At the beginning Deeds would be limited since orange dust is rarer. At the end players would have more choices to specify their Deeds at the expense of very high dust costs and lowered rewards.

It can be discussed if existing deeds can be “dragged into the fire” as starting point which will then be shown as modifiers with 100 % probability but without costs (as the deed already existed). So it could also be used to change Deeds with unwanted modifiers.
It can also be discussed if Deed modifiers have to be “unlocked” first by “dragging found deeds into the fire” to give some sort of progression or early-game lock (for whatever reason).

There was probably other stuff I wanted to say. For now, be in awe of that totally artistical coherent image.

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This system makes some sense for players with a lot, and seeing your numbers I mean a lot of resources ; which definitely isn’t the case of many.
If you do this, deeds will be even less played than they are now given there will be a resource cost some players won’t afford or won’t be willing to pay.

That being said, the two could coexist, meaning you could play a dropped deed with its set modifiers or create your own with the system you propose, or recycle deeds you own and you don’t want to play (recruit ones, or modifiers you hate) for resources.

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Hm, maybe this didn’t come out clear enough. But I never intended for the regular Deed dropping to stop. This system is meant as an addition.

Also the numbers are just examples. And the costs highly depend on preferences. If you take starting values for everything, you will have low costs but you have no influence on what modifiers or map you get. If you want to have specific maps or modifiers, only then the cost will start rocketing.

As shown in the image, a base cost of 1 scrap metal etc and 10 of each dust is not something I would consider much.

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I really appreciate the effort you put into the elaboration and presentation Adelion, but do you really have to put a price tag on everything? The game is only designed for 80-100 hours of play anyway, who has 100 Dust to spare (and that 500 times minimum if you want to have the Achievement?)
By the way, I’m at 3.5k h playtime at about 3.7k green, 10k blue and 11k orange… that’s far from the 50000 you would need at least according to this proposal…
Joking aside, I think the decision to spend any resource on the deeds is really questionable, especially for the difficulty level I see it critically.
Furthermore, I always have my problems with solutions that seem illogical to me. This includes brewing heroic deeds in a witch’s cauldron.

Why don’t you just make Deeds a separate queue (I know, not the most elegant solution either), where the difficulty can be chosen freely (including Cataclysm best), where there is simply a vote before the game, 3 options to choose from, which are fixed as long as the lobby exists (at 50/50 the host vote decides) and which can be started as often as you like? My suggestion for the visual aspect of the whole story would be some kind of bulletin board, I think that fits the theme more than the fire bowl and I have a certain aversion to this magical hocus-pocus anyway since the Athanor.

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Well, for reasons we don’t know, Fatshark seems to want for Deeds to be limited. That is the assumption which works as base here. I know that the community wants a simple click click chose what you want and maybe FS is ready to give this. But a lot of design choices in the game indicate otherwise. So I tried to make a solution which covers this limitation.

Not sure on the joking part. Like said, the numbers are example and the one in the screen would “cost” 30 dust overall. I admit, I may have lost any feeling for how hard this may to gather but it doesnt seem to expensive to me.

if deed crafting is gonna be a thing I’d prefer just having a scrap cost rather than a dust cost

maybs dust to reroll (also the addition of red deeds would be pretty neat)

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The whole deed system is a joke. The artificial scarcity makes no sense - the portrait challenges are for completing deeds, not for acquiring them from loot boxes at a pitiful drop rate. Add to that no deed matchmaking lobby to co-op and share deeds with others, and a single player has to put in thousands of hours to get enough deeds for the 500 portrait, something that in reality should take 200-250 hours of gameplay if there wasn’t artificial deed scarcity.

Even if we had craftable deeds, I don’t think they would become popular amongst the rank-and-file players unless there is a proper matchmaking system to find team mates.

Given Fatshark’s apparent lack of interest in fixing deeds (or giving us a twitch lobby), I think the best ‘low effort’ solution that could be implemented would to replace the boring Weekly Event with a Daily Deed - that way we would get different deed modifiers every 24 hours and we could matchmake into games with other players at our selected difficulty easily and as often as we like. No more artificial scarcity, and the ability to quickplay deeds with strangers for minimal effort on Fatshark’s part. Sounds like a win-win for everyone.

Is there some scarcity of dust I don’t know of O.o The wish for a dust sink has been mentioned in the forums several time already because outside of rerolling there is simply no usage of it.

What is a red deed? If you mean a deed dropping a guaranteed red weapon or red dust then I have sever doubts that Fatshark will ever go with this. If it is a deed with increased difficulty like four or five modifiers or Cataclysm 2 or higher, then this is possible even within the proposed system.

Doesn’t matter if it makes sense to you or not. To quote the largest failure on earth: It is what it is. For now Fatshark seems intent to keep the artificial scarcity.

more that dust conversion is a pain in the behind lol, also there’s a lot more scrap to go around than dust since scrap is used for nothing but item crafting which isn’t done much

The latter, just think it’d be a cool progression/extra tier to the deed system

By far the absolute WORST aspect of VT2 is the RNG loot system that was cynically put into the game to inflate grind. It’s out of all proportion with the amount of actual content that Fatshark release. It has the effect of making an otherwise wonderful game really frustrating. If Darktide has similar RNG BS then I’ll be much less likely to buy it.

P.S. I don’t mean to derail the deed discussion, so will shut up.

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