How is it too much if it takes like 20 hours to get to lvl 35?
I’d say one solution could be a requirement for Legend, like Cata, to beat all Lords on Champion first to unlock it.
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Pretty sure you’re joking but Poe’s Law requires I verify.
No, seriously tell me. How long does it take to level up a character?
About 20 hours sounds right.
No, xp weekend is ok
some players play in higher difficulties than they should, but not game’s fault
they will try and go back to lower difficulties eventually and the group can kick a low level character/player anyway
The game doesn’t even really start until level 35. 100 hours just to get through the tutorial with all 5 classes is pretty egregious.
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I don’t see how see how that is a problem. The time required to level up the characters gives players an opportunity to familiarise themselves with the gameplay loop, their current career, and get to know the maps. Not get good mind you. Just so that they at least know which way to go.
So a player spent 100 hours playing 5 different characters, all of which have 3 careers, and now has some inkling as to how to play them. That’s good. Besides, the consequences of lowering the amount XP required to level up, or increasing the XP gained, are written at the very top of this page. The difference between Champion and Legend is large. And people that have little to no playtime finding their way onto Legend is a recipe for a bad time for both the player in question and their teammates.
I can’t really agree with you on the whole tutorial part though. This game does about as much hand holding as Dark Souls or other games where you are just dropped into the thick of it.
I agree it’s not a tutorial in the sense that it tries to teach you something. Maybe “prologue” would have been a better term to use.
I disagree with the premise of this thread, that people should be gated out of Legend for longer. In my experience, people are bad at Legend when they start playing Legend. Doesn’t matter if that happens at hour 10 or hour 100. Most of the learning at lower difficulties does not transfer. Book locations is pretty much the only thing, and that’s the least important part of playing the game. Anything you think you know about combat dynamics, how to pace a run through a map, how to fight a boss, etc. is wrong, because those things are too easy on lower difficulties to really prepare you for Legend. Same thing with Cata.
I don’t think the leveling grind is too bad for one character, but it’s abhorrent to have to do it five times. Maybe if all five shared XP and leveled up together? Actually, I think all five sharing double XP and leveling together might be the best option. Or even just remove the level-up grind altogether, and find a better way to slow-drip the content to players. Beat one map to unlock the next skill level on your character. Unlock all of the skills to unlock the next career.
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Every time this topic comes up, I just recall my good old days in L4D2 - no one was limiting anyone in anything in that game - no levels, no grind, no items, no nothing - every player was equal to any other player from get go. And I don’t think it is a bad thing at all - the game is a legend. That makes me wonder if all these issues are artificial and are just a consequence of bringing in that whole RPG element into the game.
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YES.
I absolutely miss games being a level playing-field from the beginning to the high level. High level play is only possible with high skilled players. Instead of making level grind/item grind/ loot grind and so on make the gameplay so bloody awesome that it’s addictive.
The Melee in VT2 is unmatched anywhere. Is itpossible it got sullied by the addition of all kinds of other fairly pointless stuff?
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100% this. Adding in leveling and hero power (as they are currently implemented) was not only unnescesary, it was also detrimental. It feels like it was done this way, just because succesful RPGs and games in which grinding is a core gameplay mechanic (like Diablo and such) have it as well, and therefore that’s how things are “supposed” to be done. Also, for example, the decision to increase the level cap for WoM was absolutely baffling. It was meaningless since the game was rebalanced as well at the same time, and it served only to frustrate people. They think this was World of Warcraft or something?
I think a short leveling path to gradually unlock all your skills is not a bad thing. That serves as a good way to introduce stuff to new players, as unlocking everything from the start could be overwhelming. But after that it should all be freely available. Vermintide nailed that with the freely respecable skills, but I think that should also go for weapon traits as well. Locking that behind RNG rewards and blocking respecs with limited resources for that was a great mistake, IMO. Weapon traits should be done like the Athanor currently is. And the whole concept of hero power is pretty meaningless in the end.
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