So bored of having to micro-manage bots, because people don’t join on QP. Standing in corners so they don’t run off and kill themselves, and then wiping because all 3 of them run across the map to kill a Gas Rat.
Or only getting put in games from across the world which are so laggy it’s barely playable.
Alternatively, buff the bots so they can see disablers, and make it so Chaos Spawn with bots isn’t a wipe.
Match 1:
I mean I just did a game, got a Boss on me, Pack Master, Gunner, and the bots just run back and forth because the gunner was shooting, waiting for me to die. Fun btw.
Match 2:
We got a Stormfiend, the bots run to the other side of the map because of a Gunner, I get Gutter Runner’d because I’m trying to clear the Horde/Specials they’re ignoring, they all die one by one without getting it off me. Fun btw.
So much yes. I don’t understand their logic on when to go ranged and when not, seems like if I shoot something they do too, but otherwise like you said they love to go for the 3 person strong melee special hunts, across the whole map if necessary (only to teleport back to you and repeat the process again…)
Is WoM really not that common that it considerably contributes to the lack of Cata pubs? Maybe that’s different region to region dunno, but usually ppl have most of the DLCs from what I’ve seen. Like I just wrote in some other thread, for me and for some (I think this may be a big portion of the Legend players) there is an extra anxiety going to Cata even if someone in the lobby suggests doing so, and many times some excuse stops the random group from upping the difficulty. I’m in most of the time, but I have a bag of excuses to draw from too It was the same when going from Champ to Legend, but there was the big pumpkin on a stick hanging in front of me called good loot to motivate even if I was a burden. Can’t say I am a burden on Cata, but still most of the time I join Legend games.
It’s just the fact I have to do 75% of the damage myself. They just run back and forth letting me get hit in the sides before reacting, and then AFKing when there’s a Gunner or suiciding when there’s a Gas Rat.
Well, the problem is, Legend in no way resembles how Cata plays, so people don’t learn what to do on Cata without learning every Boss wall, Horde/Special timing, a few decent bunker spots, and learning to Melee properly.
Other than that you can play a ranged Career with some decent breakpoints and kill the limited amount of enemies without running out of ammo, which is why all the BH/WS/BW players who move up fall apart when it comes to melee.
I can do Legend with bots and hold W until the end of the map, because they kill everything in 1 hit. I did it earlier as FK for my last 100 games above Legend Challenge, because I didn’t want to get books with people. zZz
The reward system is also a problem. Noone gets books in Cata, so a lower difficulty actually offers more loot.
Because it’s viable to not carry a heal or have less HP on Legend
Because of the success rate of the missions, so you’re guaranteed a chest regardless of the books
Dunno about the community at large, but I for one have still not bought it, and I’m a pretty hardcore player as it goes. There’s just not enough that I value (literally only 1 map and 5 weapons, don’t care about weaves at all) in WoM and it hasn’t gone on sale that hits a price point I’m willing to pay.
Most new players I think buy the DLC package in a sale, so I don’t think the majority of the issue is not having WOM. Legend being a much harder brick wall then it used to be is probably the main culprit. The pre-WOM dodge window was OP as it was specifically to compensate for lag, well they removed that but the lag is still there, plus Legend is harder then pre-WOM. Doing pugs where you may have 150 or 200 or higher ping can absolutely ruin you on Legend, in addition to being a very hard game in it’s own right.
Personally I love Legend as it is, but I’ll be honest I can’t run pugs unless I’m playing a tank class (IB, etc) or unless I’m hoisting myself. It’s simply too punishing a difficulty for the technical performance the game is capable of providing.
Hmm. Somehow I have a different feeling as I’ve had some success with groups that at most had a very basic understanding of those except for melee skills which were beyond average I think. And very decent success with groups with plenty of Legend play under their belt, but not necessarily of walls & timers other than going by feeling. Sure it’s clear as day that often wipes would be avoidable by paying attention & having the knowledge of those. And by no means am I that aware of timers other than maybe for specials.
That could be distilled to yes I think you are right, but it’s less black & white. Probably though the hours of Legend play needed to learn the deeper game mechanics is so huge that it’s not happening on a slightly more than average play time player, which I am not and that probably skews my view too.
True, but those few moments in the W runs rely on you knowing the mechanics inside out.
I was very positively surprised one day accidentally joining a Cata lobby (lobby browser bug when you switch views too quick) where all books were taken just as if it was Legend. Which is why I only realized the fact after the next mission start and had to ask what the previous was. The 3 were amazing players though and I could not keep up fully.
Aand there is no point in this reply other than to reply. Yes, free Cata and give loot to get people to play more of it. Me included if the only reason is not the challenge. I find Legend & Cata close to equally enjoyable. On Cata it just depends more on the players.
Yeah easy to understand. Though, VT2 has given me so much that throwing some euros at it was a no-brainer even if I only got, well, one weapon that I use and Cata for the price. Price / hours is still pretty cheap even compared to some almost free bundles bought just because.
Probably true as it’s been on sale plenty of times and for lengthy periods too. Legend being a brick wall and what Kitten wrote all do make sense indeed.
Me too <3 I appreciate an IB doing his thing and keeping the group alive at tight situations. Never play him myself though. 1.6 tanky version of RV with Grudge was the most fun I got out of IB. But no butt bashing anymore
Sometimes we don’t agree, sometimes we agree… This time, totally agree.
And don’t get me wrong guys, I bought every paid content (cosmetics apart).
In this forum people talks about the game like Cataclysm was the game’s core… In reality the 80% of the community plays Veteran and Champ… And Cataclysm is almost desert (totally desert at certain time zones).
The problem is that this game is NOT meant to be played alone… Sure, could be doable, but there will ALWAYS be unavoidable deaths. There are certain situations that, playing alone, mean a death. Mathematically.
I go from one round standing in corners, trying to get bots to not die, to the next where I need someone else to play in the same way or we’ll just wipe with no bot support, and it ends up causing a wipe.
People are trying to learn Cata maps and timings, but need to learn how to play with bots AND as duos at the same time. It’s just too much info in too little time for someone to type out. It’s because of these points specifically that I’d rather have me and 3 bots OR 4 players and nothing in between.
Going through that over and over becomes too frustrating and I get annoyed and end up with another person who hates me.
I feel like if there was a steady amount of 4 mans rather than half bot runs and then 2 people getting frustrated with each other, it would be a less frustrating experience with much less chance of becoming toxic.
I’ve paid for it too. I want people to play it with.
And you will find people who say that maps and enemies should be free while a new difficulty is okay to be paid for.
Concerning the topic: IMHO this is completely developer decision and there is no point arguing about it. If they put work into, they are allowed to ask money for it. Players like to forget that we already have a very generous DLC policy where a lot of stuff can be enjoyed without having bought any DLC. The only things which currently are completely locked are some of Okri’s challenges, some cosmetics, some weapons, Weaves and Cataclysm. That is very minor in comparison to the overall available content.
And before anyone comes with the stupidious argument of “It splits the community”. Noone ever says this because he cares for the community but for selfish reason. If we want a game that doesn’t “split” community we should have only one game mode, one map and one difficulty. Because all of this - Independent from being paid content or not - DOES split the community.
At least in Europe, I personally never had issues finding a Cataclysm game. However, I see that there may be problems in less populated areas. Not sure, how people manage to get each other hating, sounds more like a personality issue. Don’t recall ever getting in an argument with Cataclysm players, they are usually veeerrryy chill because they have reached the point where they don’t care for loot anymore (which is why THIS is a point I will oppose)
Yup, I’m with you. I paid for WoM specifically for Cata and wouldn’t really feel slighted or cheated if they opened it to all or opened it to host-only. I just want a larger player pool in Cata. I see a lot of the same faces often, and sometimes at specific times, matchmaking is dead.
Cata is not an unreachable/unconquerable difficulty for any player, imho; they just need to be given the chance to play it and get better at it.
Be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it.
Are you sure you want all kinds of people who are car-crashing their way through Legend convinced they’re awesome joining you in Cata? People have to extend their e-peen by getting that frame you know…
@Kitten 's post 4 above yours suggest that even the current players in cata aren’t exactly working together.
I think that the way to unlock Cata for a wider audience would be to put in as part of all future DLC. If there was DLC that gave each hero a new skin, the sales would rocket and a side effect would be a wider pool of people in Cata.
Yes, yes I do. I have zero problems with new people or people not ready for Cata playing Cata. Cata’s pretty mellow otherwise. If I can’t carry my pubs, it means I still have yet to improve.
Edit: I want to clarify this isn’t me trying to be superior or anything. When Cata first came out, I was that car crash and my way more skilled friends face dragged me through it, but kept pulling me into it. Eventually I stopped dying and got better. I think that’s the process for a lot of people. Legend doesn’t teach you Cata. Cata does.
Going Cata to improve and going Cata and expecting to be carried like in Legend is not the same. Not everyone wants to improve in this game.
Mostly you just get ignored in pubs when you try to coordinate, I had pubs in legend who were pissed when I tried to give advice, I had pubs who tought that dying and being picked up later was “part of the game”.
You won’t get better just because you’re dragged through the level, you have to observe and ask, or at least listen and obey when you’re told something by those better than you.
No, I don’t really want those there, who don’t go there to improve.
It was the same when going from Champ to Legend, but there was the big pumpkin on a stick hanging in front of me called good loot to motivate even if I was a burden. Can’t say I am a burden on Cata, but still most of the time I join Legend games.
